new basketball coach

Date: Mar 25, 2004

new basketball coach

Date: Mar 25, 2004

It's all about the money. Universities, not just USM, will do about anything for money. Ethics? not a consideration. Modeling appropriate behavior for students? Why worry about that? This guy is probably an excellenet basketball coach. Perhaps an even better partier...USM will win games with him...sell tickets...that's all that matters. Keep an eye on whether basket ball players attend class...and which classes they take...

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Someone would have hired this guy. He has been a success throughout his career. It's been a year since he last coached. You guys have ****ed on this guy before his career at Southern Miss has even started. That sounds real fair. The guy did screw up at Iowa State but all people fall off the wagon at least once in their lives. Maybe he's cleaned up his act.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Yeah, I think OJ has cleaned up his act too. I still wouldn't want this coach around my college aged daughter!

Date: Mar 25, 2004

But hey...I guess President Thames could assign one or two of USM police officers to ride in the Coaches motor homes to games to make sure he goes straight home and doesn't go to any student parties. Or would that be a misuse of state funds??

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"But hey...I guess President Thames could assign one or two of USM police officers to ride in the Coaches motor homes to games to make sure he goes straight home and doesn't go to any student parties. Or would that be a misuse of state funds??"

No, he has to keep his gestapo on hand in case any other profs get out of line. Or to "protect" his supporters at the next student protest, as they did in the last one.

BTW, here are the 4 supporters of Shelby. The police were standing on both sides of them, but were cut out of the photo:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/p55cc854127672b8e417ac5b6870f712b/f961f610.jpg.orig.jpg

Date: Mar 25, 2004

sorry, the link to the photo didn't work

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Try this one:

http://www.geocities.com/shelbysfour/shelbysfriends.JPG

There was a space in the other URL (computers don't like spaces).

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Nope...still get the "page not available" msg

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: This person
The guy did screw up at Iowa State but all people fall off the wagon at least once in their lives. Maybe he's cleaned up his act."

You're missing the point. The point is this: Thames publicly and swiftly FIRES two very well respected academics with stellar records without consulting ANYONE at USM but his own cronies (not the Provost, not the Deans, not their chairs) all based on such evidence that it causes him to say that there could be CRIMINAL charges involved. There was no "second chance" for Glamser and Stringer.

Then, within a month, he hires a man who has PUBLICLY exercised such poor judgment as to be photographed in DRUNKEN poses with college students. There are rules (if not laws) against fraternizing with undergrads at most universities, and this man had his photograph splashed all over national media doing just that.

And he is now rewarded with a job at Shelby U. You say "Maybe he has cleaned up his act." Well, *MAYBE* Glamser and Stringer didn't misuse university computers. And *MAYBE* they didn't deserve to be summarily fired with no input from their immediate supervisors. And, finally, *MAYBE* Shelby Thames is the most shortsighted administrator in all of history.

USM deserves more than a *MAYBE.*

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Like one of the writers above, I am all in favor of giving people a second chance. Perhaps this impulse is what has motivated President Thames to give your new coach a second chance. (I am trying to be charitable here!) However, if this is the case, then why not give Professors Glamser and Stringer a second chance? Why, if President Thames sincerely believed they were guilty of some heinous offense, did he not at least give them a severe warning instead of firing them ("Fellas, I'll overlook this now, but if you ever do anything like this again, you're out")? President Thames seems to have a true gift for shooting himself in the foot (does he have any toes left?). The hiring of the new coach will call even greater national media attention to USM at just the time when PT probably does not want any further national media attention.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: USMlooksridiculousoutsideMS
"Like one of the writers above, I am all in favor of giving people a second chance. Perhaps this impulse is what has motivated President Thames to give your new coach a second chance. (I am trying to be charitable here!) However, if this is the case, then why not give Professors Glamser and Stringer a second chance? Why, if President Thames sincerely believed they were guilty of some heinous offense, did he not at least give them a severe warning instead of firing them ("Fellas, I'll overlook this now, but if you ever do anything like this again, you're out")? President Thames seems to have a true gift for shooting himself in the foot (does he have any toes left?). The hiring of the new coach will call even greater national media attention to USM at just the time when PT probably does not want any further national media attention."

To me, it is just this simple: Shelby will accept a reject coach with tons of baggage, but wants to fire two professors who are well known and respected in their fields. His pattern is to assemble the weak around him; they are less likely to challenge him. A coach (albeit a talented coach) who is the scourge of the collegiate sports world, who feels lucky to have a new contract, isn't going to challenge Shelby when he makes demands. Evidence is piling up that Shelby likes to hire and reward the inept and fire the powerful and talented. It's a pattern.

Just further demonstrates bad judgment and insecurity on Shelby's part.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Well, I think it the new coach will only help the cause against Thames. It shows, once again, his abuse of power to force unpopular (and wrong) decisions down the throats of faculty, staff, and students.

Enjoy it while you can, Shelby.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Do you guys know anything about sports? Check out this article in today's Hattiesburg American and take a look at his resume. Yes, he screwed up big time. He was punished for what he did as he should have. He was told either to resign or get fired and he chose A. However his record is impressive. He has turned around two lowly programs. Again, from what I have read none of you seem to know anything about sports. His record so far is clean here at Southern Miss. There were a lot of other schools looking at this guy and I mean a lot. These were schools with a lot more capital to throw around too. He took a year off and suposedly got his $hit together. Cut this guy some slack. He didn't deserve any slack at Iowa State and didn't get any either. This is a new era for him. If he continues his old ways then I am sure he will gone in no time at all. If Dr's. Glamer and Stringer are truly guilty then they deserve the same fate. However, this does not mean they can start again somewhere else with a fresh start. Do you see what I'm getting at?

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/news/stories/200 40325/southernmissnews/146511.html

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: this person
Cut this guy some slack.

I'll cut him some slack when Shelby cuts Glamser and Stringer some slack. Just pointing out the double standard.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

The new coach may deserve slack. No arguments here.

However, one would think that in light of all the charges against him, and all the publicity focused upon him, Shelby would choose a less controversial candidate.

He did not, and he is only increasing the intensity of the spotlight upon him.

Thanks for the help in your own ouster, Shelby.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

The natural instinct of any decent person is to give someone a second chance (or, in your words, "cut him some slack"). The main issue in debate here is whether Shelby Thames cut the two professors any slack. Obviously he did not.

As so often happens, there seems to be a double standard in American higher education regarding sports and athletics. It took years and years and years of bad behavior by Bobby Knight before he was eventually fired by Indiana University (he was then immediately hired by another school). It took one minor incident for Shelby Thames to terminate the distinguished careers of two dedicated, long-serving USM professors.

Give the new basketball coach a second chance, if you wish; but at least be consistent and also give the two professors a second chance. WWJD?

Ironically, if and when the two professors file suit against the university and win, they will have a chance to receive the kinds of payments routinely awarded by American colleges to the coaches of athletic teams. Apparently your new basketball coach used to be the highest-paid official in the entire state of Iowa! Go figure.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Photo of shelby's four supporters-link should work

Date: Mar 25, 2004

RE: new basketball coach

Date: Mar 25, 2004

The new coach is going to be paid about a tenth of what he was paid in Iowa. Iowa State's baseketball revenues far exceed our's and were more than enough to pay his salary. I do agree that 1.1million a year for a college baseketball coach is too much. However, if the program is more than self-sufficient (Iowa State's was at the time) then I think it's fine to spend that much money. It wasn't coming out of academics. I wouldn't do it but since that money came directly from baseketball revenues then I really can't argue with it.

The baseball and football programs here at Southern Miss are profitable. So I feel that Coach Bower and Coach Palmer's salaries are justified as well. They don't make close to 1.1million a year but you see my point.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

The thing that strikes me about that pic of the 4 shelby supporters is that they appear to be looking off to the side for direction...did the gnome set up this demonstration in the style of saddam hussein and other dictators?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: fire shelby
" No, he has to keep his gestapo on hand in case any other profs get out of line. Or to "protect" his supporters at the next student protest, as they did in the last one. BTW, here are the 4 supporters of Shelby. The police were standing on both sides of them, but were cut out of the photo: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/p55cc854127672b8e417ac5b6870f712b/f961f610.jpg.orig.jpg"

Why would the police have to protect the four supporters? They had just as much right to be there as the protestors. Are you saying that you or someone else would have attacked the four supporters had the police not been standing by? If so, that would defeat the free speech argument. I guess free speech only pertains to some people, right?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: this person
" Are you saying that you or someone else would have attacked the four supporters had the police not been standing by? If so, that would defeat the free speech argument. I guess free speech only pertains to some people, right? "

Hello? No one is saying that they would attack anyone. What we are saying is that Thames ordered the police there to protect his supporters ahead of time (not because of some threats, but just because he likes to throw his weight around). I don't see how this has anything to do with free speech.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

What a HUGE leap of logic on your part

Date: Mar 25, 2004

RE: new basketball coach

Date: Mar 25, 2004

RE: Photo of shelby's four supporters-link should work

Date: Mar 25, 2004

RE: new basketball coach

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Hey Truth........do you know the truth about the two professors that were let go, do you have all the facts. As you name says I would think you would want to get all the facts before you go off and make statments.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Those of you oppposed to this hire have you rights but are the most narrowed minded people I have EVER seen! Larry lost the ISU coaching job based more on a personality conflict with the AD than his behavior. The AD did not like the power Larry had and as Brutus done unto Ceaser, the AD did unto Larry. There are many, many Cyclone fans who wanted Larry retained. Ya'll mark my words, LE will be a great hire for your university.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"It's all about the money. Universities, not just USM, will do about anything for money. Ethics? not a consideration. Modeling appropriate behavior for students? Why worry about that? This guy is probably an excellenet basketball coach. Perhaps an even better partier...USM will win games with him...sell tickets...that's all that matters. Keep an eye on whether basket ball players attend class...and which classes they take..."

A lot of assumptions in your post...ever heard the expression "judge the, lest ye be judged yourself" or "he who is without sin, cast the first stone?" At least give the guy shot until he proves he doesn't deserve it. There are plenty of indiscretions that go on with faculty at college campuses across the country (and at USM) and they are not isolated to the Athletic Dept. How many professors with alcohol problems are cast into the mainstream media?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Why bring a known problem to the university? Why risk the liability to the school if he "slips up" again? That liability will be so much greater to a school that hires someone with a known history of actions that are directly harmful to students.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Give the new coach a chance? Let's see what he can do? You mean, let's see how many games he can win? Which is more important than drinking with underage students and kissing coeds? Send you wife/daughter/sister over to welcome him.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

It's really tiring how those amoung us supporting our President are trying to claim some moral "high" chararcter, when the bible clearly states to judge a man's character by the "fruits" he produces. The fuits of Shelby's labors have been to discourage those of us who work at the university. It's disheartening to see the man who is suppose to lead us, excersizing his politcal muscles at our expense, and the God I serve tends to look unfavorably on things like that. So if you're going to defend Shelby Thames, be careful on what you say, take a hard look at his character, because the truth of the matter is, you only have to look to see he has definately made a higher power angry, and nothing you can say or do will change that. Shelby is the only one in control of whether he stays or goes. Repentance is the only way for him.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

"The fellow who is second from the left is truly an inspiration. It is upliftting to know that a person without higher brain functions has been able to get into college. Thanks, USM, for reaching out to the intellectually needy!"

All of you that are against Thames are showing how ignorant and irrelvant you all are just by speaking and making stupid comments like the one above. I happen to know the person that the quote above was about and he was not accepted into this school while the Thames administration was even in office. As far as being intellectualy needy, if it means already graduating with a degree and about to receive an MBA like the guy in the picture, than I hope I am that intellectually needy as well. It is so contradictory to sit here and rip on these people that want to support Thames just because they don't agree with you and want all of the facts to come out before they make their judgements. By protesting something you have no idea and no facts about like y'all did last week, you only made USM look like $hit to the entire state and the entire south, especially when as the evidence comes in, it looks like the suspensions were justifialble. Just because you all don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong.

As far as the new basketball coach, he is a good one. He was going to get another coaching job somewhere, so it might as well have been here where our basketball program needs some new energy and some rebuilding. He screwed up at Iowa State, not here. Again, y'all are attacking him because of alcoholism, which is a disease that as of now, he has beaten. If he screws up here, I am sure he will be gone, but I really don't think that he is stupid enough to screw up again like he did. From what I here, he was a good person and a great coach who had trouble with alcoholism, and now he has beaten that, so lets see what he can do for USM!

Southern Miss To The Top!!!

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Hey, USMEaglefan...where is this guy getting his MBA?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: USMlooksridiculousoutsideMS
"Like one of the writers above, I am all in favor of giving people a second chance. Perhaps this impulse is what has motivated President Thames to give your new coach a second chance. (I am trying to be charitable here!) However, if this is the case, then why not give Professors Glamser and Stringer a second chance? Why, if President Thames sincerely believed they were guilty of some heinous offense, did he not at least give them a severe warning instead of firing them ("Fellas, I'll overlook this now, but if you ever do anything like this again, you're out")? President Thames seems to have a true gift for shooting himself in the foot (does he have any toes left?). The hiring of the new coach will call even greater national media attention to USM at just the time when PT probably does not want any further national media attention."

I think you need to contrast the two cases. On one hand, you have a basketball coach who struggled with alcohol addiction in his life off the court. His professional accomplishments and actions were never in question, as he was consistently one of the best coaches in America. He committed no crimes, and broke no rules. He simply made bad choices in his personal affairs, and he resigned from his professional duties in order to get his life back on track. All indications are that he has been successful. This isn't even a question of a "second chance" so much as it is of recognizing the fact that he has fixed his problems and is ready to resume his career.

The case with the two professors, on the other hand, is not as cut-and-dry. There is the possiblity of criminal conduct, and other violations of rules or policies. I realize this is a point of conention - but none of us have all the details. If these professors are shown to have done absolutely nothing wrong, I will be the first to stand up and petition for their reinstatement. I don't feel that will be the case when the facts come out, though.

So, simply put, you are trying to build a bridge between two very different and distinct cases, that just can't be thrown into the same pot. Eustachy dealt with the personal demons of addiction and had overcome them. The professors, on the other hand, are accused of what could be criminal conduct. If, indeed, they are guilty, then their dismissals are justified.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Catfish
""

Drinking with a minor is against the law.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm
" You're missing the point. The point is this: Thames publicly and swiftly FIRES two very well respected academics with stellar records without consulting ANYONE at USM but his own cronies (not the Provost, not the Deans, not their chairs) all based on such evidence that it causes him to say that there could be CRIMINAL charges involved. There was no "second chance" for Glamser and Stringer. Then, within a month, he hires a man who has PUBLICLY exercised such poor judgment as to be photographed in DRUNKEN poses with college students. There are rules (if not laws) against fraternizing with undergrads at most universities, and this man had his photograph splashed all over national media doing just that. And he is now rewarded with a job at Shelby U. You say "Maybe he has cleaned up his act." Well, *MAYBE* Glamser and Stringer didn't misuse university computers. And *MAYBE* they didn't deserve to be summarily fired with no input from their immediate supervisors. And, finally, *MAYBE* Shelby Thames is the most shortsighted administrator in all of history. USM deserves more than a *MAYBE.* "

An honest question then, if Shelby Thames had fired the professors based solely on the fact that they had alcohol addictions, despite the fact that their professional record was stellar (just as Eustachy's is), you'd support their dismissal based on the fact that they exercised poor judgement in their personal lives?

Take it a step further - if the two professors were photographed hugging and being kissed on the cheek by sorority girls before a football game, would you ask that they resign or be fired?

I have an extremely hard time following the logic I see on this board. On one hand, you say that the professors are getting a raw deal and that Shelby Thames is to blame. Yet, no facts about the case have come out, and we have no idea if there were any criminal or otherwise unethical actions taken by them. On the other hand, you think Larry Eustachy should not be given employment, despite the fact that there's never been a question of his professional accomplishments, he's never been accused of a crime or unethical professional practices, and he has recovered from his addictions?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: aghast
"Drinking with a minor is against the law. "

Oh, I'm sorry, you must know something the rest of the world does not. Could you please give me the ages of the people in those photos, because they have certainly never been refered to as "minors" until now.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Catfish
""

There is a monumental difference in firing someone who has worked a lifetime in the same job and hiring someone new. The two simply do not compare.

Whatever the reasons, we do know that the normal process for terminations of faculty members was not followed. There is very little Stringer and Glamser could have done that would justify the manner in which Thames handled this.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

I don't know the law to a T, but I do now that 18 year olds are allowed to get into bars around Hattiesburg where people 21 and older are drinking alcohol around them, and I know that my dad had beers when I was around, and I know that if you go to the district during any football game or even around campus, there are many people above the age of 21 drinking beers and mingling with students and minors who are not of age yet, so I can not see how drinking with minors is against the law. I might be different than a lot of folks, but I would be hard pressed to arrest and convict someone because they were drinking a beer. Also, it is not as if the coach gave all of those minors a beer. I am sure they were there partying and drinking and were going to continue partying whether or not the coach showed up or not.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Yes, the probably would drink anyway...but for a faculty member or coach to drink with underage students at a party is supporting/encouraging the illegal behavior and that cannot be tolerated....would not be tolerated by most colleges and universities.

As to the age of partiers...in the news stories, there were freshmen, sophmores among the women being "greeted warmly" by this coach...and look at the pics. they're not 21.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

from one of the Iowa papers...groping a 19 year old!

In January 2002, the coach was at an early-morning fraternity party in Manhattan, Kan., hours after his team lost a game to Kansas State, students told the Register. On that occasion, a fraternity member said he wound up in an argument with Eustachy because he found the coach's arm around his 19-year-old sister.

The woman told the Register that Eustachy walked into the house and complimented her on her appearance, saying that she should be attending the University of Kansas, where the girls are "much hotter."

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: aghast
""

Surely you aren't basing your protest of Thames strictly on "following the proper proceedures of professor termination". All this crap about, "You just don't terminate a tenured professor" is ridiculous. If they did something wrong - especially if it is criminal - then following proper "proceedure" is secondary to the actions that led to the terminations in the first place.

Let's keep our eye on the ball folks. If proper proceedure wasn't followed, there will be a time to hold people accountable for that. But if the professors are committing criminal acts while working at the University, I am perfectly comfortable with them being termination whether proceedure is followed or not.

Regardless of "proper proceedure", the issue of their guilt or innocence is central in this situation.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

As far as I can tell, at this point there is no evidence that the professors did anything wrong or illegal. I can't see how using university email or phone to investigate someone who may have falsified her credentials is wrong or illegal....it is a service to the university!!

However, there is plenty of photographic and eye witness testimony evidence about the coach doing something wrong/illegal.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"As far as I can tell, at this point there is no evidence that the professors did anything wrong or illegal. I can't see how using university email or phone to investigate someone who may have falsified her credentials is wrong or illegal....it is a service to the university!! However, there is plenty of photographic and eye witness testimony evidence about the coach doing something wrong/illegal."

Hammer, meet the head of the nail.

Glamser and Stringer did nothing wrong.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"from one of the Iowa papers...groping a 19 year old! In January 2002, the coach was at an early-morning fraternity party in Manhattan, Kan., hours after his team lost a game to Kansas State, students told the Register. On that occasion, a fraternity member said he wound up in an argument with Eustachy because he found the coach's arm around his 19-year-old sister. The woman told the Register that Eustachy walked into the house and complimented her on her appearance, saying that she should be attending the University of Kansas, where the girls are "much hotter.""

Oh - I see, since the fraternity member from a rival school of Larry Eustachy's "SAID" that, it must be true, huh? I couldn't imagine an instance in which a student at a rival school would try to make a sensational claim for the news coverage.

Shelby Thames "SAID" that the professors did terrible things. Therefore, I am assuming that you take him at his word, and are condeming the professors because of what Shelby Thames said they did.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

It was the 19 year old's BROTHER complaining about the coach having his arm around her!!!

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Consider this...why did Tim Hudson, who has a legal right to see the charges against the two professors and surely must have by now make a statement to the Hattiesburg American openly disagreeing with Thames on the issue?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"As far as I can tell, at this point there is no evidence that the professors did anything wrong or illegal. I can't see how using university email or phone to investigate someone who may have falsified her credentials is wrong or illegal....it is a service to the university!! However, there is plenty of photographic and eye witness testimony evidence about the coach doing something wrong/illegal."

As far as you can tell, huh? Exactly how far is that? Could you please share the information you are basing that on, since you obviously are quite aware of the truth.

Also, don't be so quick to think you've established illegal actions on Eustachy's part. If he went to the store and purchased alcohol for minors, that's illegal. However, it certainly isn't illegal to drink alcohol in the presence of a minor. If it were, everyone in a family restaurant drinking a beer - everyone in a bar that admits 18 year olds, and hundreds of millions of adults who have children around the nation would be hauled off to jail.

You would be wise to make the distinction between a basketball coach making a poor moral choice, and him doing something that is criminal in nature.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: aghast
"Drinking with a minor is against the law. "

What planet have you been living on? Drinking in the presence of a minor is most certainly NOT illegal. That is ridiculous. Adults can't provide alcohol to minors - but Larry Eustachy isn't accused of that.

If drinking around a minor is against the law, everyone that has ever had a beer in a family restaurant, everyone that has ever been to a club where 18 year olds are admitted, and every parent who has ever had a drink around their child would be criminals.

Sorry, try again - I realize that you are struggling to legitimize your contentions against Eustachy, but you have failed miserably to this point.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"It was the 19 year old's BROTHER complaining about the coach having his arm around her!!! "

Reread what you posted - the brother was a fraternity member at the rival school, just as I said.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

We're talking about drinking beer with, arms around, kissing, etc. minor female students....for whom in his role, he should have been setting an example. Check with as many universities as you want (Provost or VP for Academic Affairs) and ask them about a professor doing that...would he/she be fired?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

from the des moines register...

In January 2002, the coach was at an early-morning fraternity party in Manhattan, Kan., hours after his team lost a game to Kansas State, students told the Register. On that occasion, a fraternity member said he wound up in an argument with Eustachy because he found the coach's arm around his 19-year-old sister.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"from the des moines register... In January 2002, the coach was at an early-morning fraternity party in Manhattan, Kan., hours after his team lost a game to Kansas State, students told the Register. On that occasion, a fraternity member said he wound up in an argument with Eustachy because he found the coach's arm around his 19-year-old sister."

So what's your point? I said that a fraternity member from a rival school made that claim - you just posted a selection from an article that says a fraternity member from a rival school made that claim. Would you mind explaining to me how I misrepresented the situation?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

drinking a beer in the presence of a minor at a public restaurant is not even close to being a legitimate comparison to drinking with underage female students at a party at a private residence.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Can you imagine the fun that opposing team fans will have with this new coach?

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"drinking a beer in the presence of a minor at a public restaurant is not even close to being a legitimate comparison to drinking with underage female students at a party at a private residence. "

You are quite correct - the first is a perfectly fine thing to do, the second shows very poor judgement. Neither, however, are criminal in nature.

If you want to argue morality, that's fine. But you called Eustachy's actions illegal, when they are certainly not.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

I would hate to be the coach/professor/administrator sitting at a private party, inebriated, in the presence of minors who are drinking if the police arrived.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Catfish
" You are quite correct - the first is a perfectly fine thing to do, the second shows very poor judgement. Neither, however, are criminal in nature. If you want to argue morality, that's fine. But you called Eustachy's actions illegal, when they are certainly not."

Eh, go look at USM's faculty handbook and see what it says about fraternizing with students. The USM policy is the shared by most universities.

Against the law? No. Against university protocol and propriety? Yes.

As far as I care, let him come to USM. It will make games more interesting, and I am sure Shelby realizes more people will attend just to get a look at the drunken grappler-turned-poster boy for sobriety. It'll sell tickets.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Hey! Let's call Hambry or Dvorak and ask them if it's illegal...oh...they're not licensed to practice law in MS...we could call USM campus police...they're too busy locking offices and taking computers and protest signs...maybe the attorney general...wait, he appointed someone from the same law firm which is representing Thames in other matters to ensure the hearing is fair...guess we'll never know for sure.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Catfish
" What planet have you been living on? Drinking in the presence of a minor is most certainly NOT illegal. That is ridiculous. Adults can't provide alcohol to minors - but Larry Eustachy isn't accused of that."

Actually, drinking in the presence of minors who are drinking is against state law in Mississippi. You don't have to provide the alcohol, but you are assumed to be in a supervisory position if you are an adult in the presence of minors who are drinking.

In Mississippi, it's considered "contributing to the delinquency of a minor."

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: fire shelby
" Actually, drinking in the presence of minors who are drinking is against state law in Mississippi. You don't have to provide the alcohol, but you are assumed to be in a supervisory position if you are an adult in the presence of minors who are drinking. In Mississippi, it's considered "contributing to the delinquency of a minor." "

Hello!!! Thanks Fire Shelby!

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Let's paint a clear picture about " drinking in the presence of minors." Some of the pics in the Iowa papers show an inebriated coach, beer can in hand, arm around a coed who also has beer can in hand...he didn't sit in the kitchen and drink a beer while the minors drank in another part of the house. and all the pics seem to include a young coed.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

I read where this new coach is married and has a young family. Hopefully he HAS learned from past mistakes and will be successful at USM. Hopefully, there aren't any other skeletons buried somewhere which will come to light later.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

USM should have hired Richard Williams as head basket ball coach!!!

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Outside Observer
"USM should have hired Richard Williams as head basket ball coach!!!"

Kermit Davis was another winner who slipped through Giannini's fingers.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

RE:

Date: Mar 25, 2004

RE: new basketball coach

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: fire shelby
" Actually, drinking in the presence of minors who are drinking is against state law in Mississippi. You don't have to provide the alcohol, but you are assumed to be in a supervisory position if you are an adult in the presence of minors who are drinking. In Mississippi, it's considered "contributing to the delinquency of a minor." "

Correct - but you continue to assume things that are not present. Larry Eustachy was never charged with contributing to the dleinquency of a minor or any other criminal charge. People can say "those look like minors in the pictures", but their ages have not been released.

Again - Larry Eustachy has not been charged with any crime, whether it be a contributing charge, a DUI, and public intoxication, or any other related charge.

So again, we get back to the original point that you can't sell him as a criminal. The argument all along has been a moral one, and to try to turn it into a criminal one is ultimately baseless.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

turn him into a criminal? you mean sort of like Thames did to the two profs??

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Again, a 19 year old coeds brother was quoted in Des Moines Register that he was upset that coach had his arm around his little sister. If he wasn't criminally charged...he dodged a bullet!!

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Of course we'll give the man a break. We are Southern gentlemen and gentlewomen. But which would you trust your sister with: a self-confessed sexual predator or two 60-something professors? Shelby has proven that he has no ethics at all.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Concerned Professor
"Of course we'll give the man a break. We are Southern gentlemen and gentlewomen. But which would you trust your sister with: a self-confessed sexual predator or two 60-something professors? Shelby has proven that he has no ethics at all."

I must add, two 60-something fine, upstanding, well-respected, without-the-taint-of-scandal professors.

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Guys, Catfish is just looking for some good old-fashioned ego-boosting. So, let's give him some!

Catfish, we don't care if Eustachy was charged with a crime or not. The point is what he did was unethical and most likely violated a least a couple of sections of the Iowa State faculty/staff handbook.

Keep in mind that there are no criminal charges against Glamser and Stringer. That whole story was concocted by Shelby to paint the professors in a bad light (he actually said that there "maybe" criminal charges files against the professors, but has this happened yet? No. And it will not, I'll wager). True, we don't know the exact charges. But, we have what the professors have told us (about misuse of university computers). And, honestly, isn't it just a bit suspicious that the same 2 men who were investigating Shelby's precious Angie are the ones that are suddenly engaging in criminal behavior and need to be immediately fired? I personally know Gary Stringer and his family and I can tell you that the most illegal thing he has ever done is probably run a stop sign.

Now, please read the post at the top of this message board. If you don't like the heat, get out of the Fire (as in, Fire Shelby, that is).

Date: Mar 25, 2004

and i'm not sure gary ever ran a stop sign either. a stand up guy!

Date: Mar 25, 2004

That's right! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Catfish.

There shouldn't even be a hearing because Thames is an out of control raving madman who has an uncontrollable desire for power! I don't know any of the parties involved in this situation, but I can assure you that it doesn't matter what is brought out in the hearing.....the profs speak the truth! It's all a right-wing conspiracy to eliminate the entire faculty at USM.

Thames "pretended" like the budget was the reason he combined departments and cost some folks some jobs.....yeah right! When has USM ever been strapped for cash! We all know this is part of his evil plan to take over the school and teach each class himself.....and then....THE WORLD!!!

Like they say.....

"If grass dies, then the sky will fall."

Date: Mar 25, 2004

Dear Educated Eddy:

You are doing a serious disservice to conservatives if you imply that this is a liberal vs. conservative controversy. This is a controversy between those who believe in academic freedom (including the freedom to question administrators) and those who do not. The freedom to raise questions and debate important issues without fear of being fired is a profoundly conservative ideal; it's central to the whole tradition of intellectual liberty in our culture.

Please don't give conservatives a bad name by suggesting that they do not support free thought and free expression.

Date: Mar 26, 2004

are all of these threads closed???

Date: Mar 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"are all of these threads closed??? "

No, shouldn't be. I only closed the new thread on this topic, but everyone is free to continue the discussion of the new coach here. Please email me if you are having trouble accessing or posting on threads.

Date: Mar 26, 2004

In defense of Catfish

Date: Mar 26, 2004

RE: new basketball coach

Date: Mar 26, 2004

Has everyone seen this editorial from today's Clarion Ledger? It sets forth the argument against Eustachy in the clearest manner I've seen:

In the world of big-time college sports, the hiring of a basketball coach is about big wins and big money.

Not now

The University of Southern Mississippi has enough problems without hiring controversial coach Larry Eustachy.

College athletics should be about more than wins and losses.

The University of Southern Mississippi obviously thinks it is getting a good deal in hiring former Iowa State University basketball coach Larry Eustachy.

Eustachy, 48, is a good coach. He has been successful at three major universities — Idaho, Utah State and Iowa State. He has a career record of 260-145. He commanded a $10 million contract in Iowa.

That all came apart after The Des Moines Register revealed his partying tendencies. When pictures of him drinking and partying with college coeds were revealed, he was forced to resign.

Eustachy went into treatment and says he is a recovering alcoholic. He is contrite and is seeking another chance to do the job he loves. He will take a big pay cut (USM salary a meager $230,000 with up to $500,000 in other incentives).

USM is obviously pleased to get a big-name coach, but it is making a mistake.

The university is currently embroiled in controversy over President Shelby Thames' action to fire two tenured professors. The faculty wants Thames removed. Students are protesting. USM is dealing with budget constraints at a time when it faces new challenges. Hiring a controversial figure like Eustachy only adds to USM's problems.

But beyond USM's problems, there are bigger issues at play. While fans look at wins and losses, college athletics should be about much more. Eustachy has failed, not on the court, but in the bigger issues of conduct.

Everyone deserves a second chance, and everyone wishes Eustachy well. But he shouldn't be head coach at USM.

Date: Mar 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Disgusted
"I'm not a lawyer, but I'll bet you lunch that this is the law in most states."

Indeed it is; considering the situation, Eustachy could have been charged with 1) contributing

2) permitting the use of alcohol by a minor.

Both are laws on the books in MO pertaining to underaged drinkers in the presence of adults.

Date: Mar 26, 2004

Eagle, You owe me lunch!!

quote:
Originally posted by: fire shelby
" Indeed it is; considering the situation, Eustachy could have been charged with 1) contributing 2) permitting the use of alcohol by a minor. Both are laws on the books in MO pertaining to underaged drinkers in the presence of adults."

Date: Mar 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: fire shelby
" Indeed it is; considering the situation, Eustachy could have been charged with 1) contributing 2) permitting the use of alcohol by a minor. Both are laws on the books in MO pertaining to underaged drinkers in the presence of adults."

Where did LE contribute or permit the use of alcohol by a minor. He was at a party and drank, how many others were there doing the same thing. He has paid for his bad judgement. He lost a 10 million dollar job, but he has never been charged with a crime so I think ya'll need to get off this.

I for one don't know the details of the two professors and will withold judgement until I know the facts, and I think ya'll should do the same. In this country someone is innocent till proven guilty and neither LE, Thames or the professors have been proven guilty of anything at this point.

Date: Mar 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle525
" Where did LE contribute or permit the use of alcohol by a minor. He was at a party and drank, how many others were there doing the same thing. He has paid for his bad judgement. He lost a 10 million dollar job, but he has never been charged with a crime so I think ya'll need to get off this. I for one don't know the details of the two professors and will withold judgement until I know the facts, and I think ya'll should do the same. In this country someone is innocent till proven guilty and neither LE, Thames or the professors have been proven guilty of anything at this point."

I haven't participated in this fray, but I will say that I agree with the Clarion Ledger editor that hiring Eustachy was a bad decision, considering the current crisis at USM.

BUT...even though Eustachy dodged a bullet and COULD have faced criminal charges, and even though his conduct was less than ethical, he has been hired by USM and we need to give him a chance.

Having said that, there is no parallel between hiring a man who did what Eustachy did--drinking with minors, "creeping out" college girls, while being photographed in the process--and firing two professors because they investigated an embellished resume in an attempt to uphold academic standards at USM.

Let me add that I have spoken with people who have seen the charges, and their opinion is that the charges are ludicrous. Time will prove this.

In the meantime, though, I know enough about the way Thames HANDLED this matter to deem him unfit for the position at the apex of this university. Calling two men to your office while you send UPD to bar them from returning to their offices, confiscate their computers, and change their locks is not good leadership, I don't care from which position you look at it.

And please keep in mind, that the firing of Glamser and STringer are only the final straws...an accumulation of other bad and even outright unethical decisions and actions of Thames lies under the surface. With Glamser and Stringer, the pot just boiled over.

Date: Mar 26, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: fire shelby
" Let me add that I have spoken with people who have seen the charges, and their opinion is that the charges are ludicrous.

The key her is in their opinion the charges are ludicuous.

Did they break policy of the University?

It doesn't matter how we feel or what our opinion is, what do the facts state. If you find a law silly or ludicrous does that give you the right to break it. Accademic freedom does not allow anyone to abuse or ignore company or Universtiy policy.

If you have knowledge of the charges and have proof, post them if not it is hearsay and would not hold up in any court of law.

And again the hiring of LE has nothing to do with the other issues that are going on at USM.

Date: Mar 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle525
""

So, by your logic, since Shelby did NOT follow university protocol in firing the two professors, he should be terminated.

Glad we can agree on that.

Date: Mar 27, 2004

The football program at Southern Miss MAY have been profitable this past season, but I seriously doubt it. The season before last and many other seasons before monies from the USM Book Store were used to bail out the football program.

The baseball and football programs here at Southern Miss are profitable. So I feel that Coach Bower and Coach Palmer's salaries are justified as well. They don't make close to 1.1million a year but you see my point. "

Date: Mar 27, 2004

I am a very opposed to Thames administration. But I also think it may be a good thing that we hired LE. For one, he has a good chance of bringing our basketball team back up where it should be. GO Eagles! And secondly, it helps our cause against Shelby. I have a relative who called me yesterday to tell me that USM was on her local news, in St. George, Utah! The more nationwide publicity we get, the worse Shelby looks.

Date: Mar 27, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: student
" I am a very opposed to Thames administration. But I also think it may be a good thing that we hired LE. For one, he has a good chance of bringing our basketball team back up where it should be. GO Eagles! And secondly, it helps our cause against Shelby. I have a relative who called me yesterday to tell me that USM was on her local news, in St. George, Utah! The more nationwide publicity we get, the worse Shelby looks. "

I think it may be a mistake to protest Eustachy being hired. We all know about his past, but the poll at the Hattiesburg American was running something like 80% for hiring and 20% against hiring, last I checked.

We don't want to look like fretting reactionaries--and I believe that if we protest Eustachy's hiring, that is how we will appear, and we may lose much of the community support we have.

We need to stay focused on what we really want, and that is Shelby fired and Glamser and Thames reinstated, and as Wary Undergrad said in one post, integrity restored to our university.

If Eustachy should falter and have problems at USM, that in itself will make the administration's decision to fire him look bad.

If Eustachy succeeds--continues to fight his alcoholism and brings USM's basketball program up--then everyone who protested his hiring will look like people just itching for a fight.

I agree with the CL editor--it was a bad decision, considering everything else going on on campus. But it's done now, so we will have to stand back and watch.

We need to stay focused. We can add the Eustachy issue to the long list of things mishandled under this administration. But to make it a prominent issue in why we are protesting would harm us.

I hope what I said makes sense.

Date: Mar 30, 2004

Yep, it does make sense. But do you have the new coach's address? I'd like to send him a welcoming present...a case of beer.