Critical Faculty Attrition

Date: Apr 15, 2004

Critical Faculty Attrition

Date: Apr 15, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Flash Gordon
"In describing faculty attrition it is important to note the effect on specific academic programs. Because close to 100 faculty members left last year, the absolute number of departures this year would almost have to be smaller (regression toward the mean, "fished out pond"). We only have 500+ tenure track faculty. However, the departure of top scholars, senior faculty, people in critical specialties and program administrators which we are now seeing is doing serious damage to the academic programs of the university. Without getting into specifics right now, I would suggest a look at nursing, criminal justice, theater, education, and some areas of business. These are the kinds of losses which need to be pointed out to alumni and university supporters."

This is an excellent point; I had not thought about the issue in this way before, but you make perfect sense.

Date: Apr 15, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
" This is an excellent point; I had not thought about the issue in this way before, but you make perfect sense."

Actually, according to the voting roles compiled for academic council and senate, we have about 480 tenure track professors at assistant or above.

Melissa Scanlin at the SH is looking for numbers to do comparative work for a possible article on the impact of the Thames Presidency on faculty/staff attrition.

Flash: I think your point is a good one about regression. It is one that would be good for her to hear. I also cautioned her to be careful about numbers only: as we know, each faculty member carries with him/her a network of connections, relationships etc. that takes many years to build. Losing mid level and senior faculty and replacing them with junior faculty represents more than the simple loss of a body replaced by another body. (I know you know this -- I felt I needed to help her see the impact of this).

Does any one out there have any real numbers or this this compilation as close as we come?

I'd put her email in here but I am at my home address and can't access my address book from here. I can supply it later. I guess she could be found through the HS site as well.

Date: Apr 15, 2004

Flash,

There is 'physical' attrition, and then there is non-physical (metaphysical?) attrition.

How many of those left will give what they used to give back to the institution? That's not to say they would neglect their students, but one has to wonder if they would contribute to the university at the levels they had in the past. To the top? I doubt it.

Date: Apr 15, 2004

I actually think some of them will. I personally know of about 10 of them that would.

Date: Apr 15, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: educator
"I actually think some of them will. I personally know of about 10 of them that would."

mmscallon@sunherald.com

It is sad that some folks will probably pull back a bit -- although the reasons for that are apt to be complex.

But I think most faculty are not well constituted to intentionally withhold their best efforts. After all -- the rewards of teaching in particular are unlikely to be monetary -- so not continuing to work as hard with students is probably like the proverbial "cutting off your nose to spite your face."

On the other hand, the psychological toll of an academic culture in which there is deep distrust between faculty and administration and deep fear on the part of faculty is more insidious and the results are likely to show up in other places: less service to the university community, for instance; less enthusiasm about recruiting; a lesser sense of loyalty and enthusiasm to the institution which might be difficult to measure but can certainly be felt. More griping. A more fractured sense of community.

The people who run this place don't seem to understand the difference between RAH RAH loyalty and the kind of loyalty that is given for free, withut the asking, with no strings attached and that often is found in all of the voluntary activities faculty members perform. A "suitcase" university isn't just about students -- there can be a "suitcase" professorite too.

When I came to Southern Miss, I didn't feel that. I am beginning to feel it a bit now. Not a lot -- but the erosion has started and, while it can be stopped, I don't believe it can under this administration.

Sorry -- gotta stop pontificating.

Date: Apr 16, 2004

It distresses me that the public, parents, etc. perceive all college teachers as "professors" and do not understand what USM is really losing. You could hire me as an adjunct. I've been one elsewhere. I'm a damned good teacher. I'm as smart and dedicated as you could wish. I can teach freshmen and sophomores. But when you get me in exhcange for Anne Wallace, or Gary Stringer, or any of the other REAL professionals, you are not getting a fair trade AT ALL. I'm not able to draw brilliant new talent to the university, or teach graduate students, or get grants. How can we help people understand what it means to lose the "cream of the crop?"

Date: Apr 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: former-staffer
"It distresses me that the public, parents, etc. perceive all college teachers as "professors" and do not understand what USM is really losing. You could hire me as an adjunct. I've been one elsewhere. I'm a damned good teacher. I'm as smart and dedicated as you could wish. I can teach freshmen and sophomores. But when you get me in exhcange for Anne Wallace, or Gary Stringer, or any of the other REAL professionals, you are not getting a fair trade AT ALL. I'm not able to draw brilliant new talent to the university, or teach graduate students, or get grants. How can we help people understand what it means to lose the "cream of the crop?""

I'm sure you are an excellent teacher, but I know what you are saying. Part of the reason I encouraged my daughter to stay at USM and pursue her BA in English was because of the stellar quality of the English Dept. - thankfully, she has graduated and moved on . . . It hits me hard (and not taking anything away from Frank Glamser and his area of expertise of which I am less familiar) that this silly administration has no respect for the English Department and its faculty. None. Nada. Zip. It's stupidity, and it is unsettling.

Date: Apr 16, 2004

Former Staffer,

What an admirable and selfless statement you just made, thank you. I, too, have been an adjunct instructor at multiple colleges and I'm great at it. But, I am not a Professor and I do not bring to the university community what the scholars bring. Many people outside the university (and, apparently, administrators inside this one) don't know the difference between someone who can "teach a course" and someone who can contribute to a community of scholars. The three components of a professor's job - research, teaching, and service - are synergistically related. In addition to our students, parents, alumni, and friends, I wish our board members would understand this.

quote:

Originally posted by: former-staffer
"It distresses me that the public, parents, etc. perceive all college teachers as "professors" and do not understand what USM is really losing. You could hire me as an adjunct. I've been one elsewhere. I'm a damned good teacher. I'm as smart and dedicated as you could wish. I can teach freshmen and sophomores. But when you get me in exhcange for Anne Wallace, or Gary Stringer, or any of the other REAL professionals, you are not getting a fair trade AT ALL. I'm not able to draw brilliant new talent to the university, or teach graduate students, or get grants. How can we help people understand what it means to lose the "cream of the crop?""

Date: Apr 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: present professor
is sad that some folks will probably pull back a bit -- although the reasons for that are apt to be complex. But I think most faculty are not well constituted to intentionally withhold their best efforts. "

Giving your best also requires being allowed to contribute your best. I have worked for some of these people in the past, and I can report from direct observation that the vindictiveness goes right into the classroom. I was never sure any advising decision I made would be upheld, and they usually were not, even when other advisees had identical situations. I was given no instructional resources, not even access to the copy machine. The course I was assigned to teach were those in which I was least prepared; the times scheduled were those I least preferred. Students were often informed of statements I had made about them which were not true. Only years later did I discover some of these things. I was written up repeatedly for not following directives I had never been given.

I could go on indefinitely, but it isn't good for me to remember too much. My point is that when you are not one of the blindly loyal and willing to abandon your own sense of integrity and intellect, you will be made to suffer in incredible ways by Shelby and his like. It won't be possible for even the most determined professors to perform as effectively as they are capable and as they desire, because they will be excluded from the process of education to the greatest extent possible.

Date: Apr 16, 2004

I just heard that the last of USM's IO-Psych profs is leaving (see my new list for today).

Date: Apr 16, 2004

Babbs:

Excuse my ignorance

What is IO-Psych prof?

Date: Apr 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: babbs
"I just heard that the last of USM's IO-Psych profs is leaving (see my new list for today)."

Have you noticed that very few faculty from the College of Sci & Tech are on the list of faculty leaving? I know that this college is also hiring very agressively.

newgirl

Date: Apr 16, 2004

psychology subfield known as industrial psychology. Alot of people teaching management in business colleges have PhD's in industrial psychology. In fact, many of USM's past IO psych grads are teaching management at various univs and colleges.

Date: Apr 17, 2004

Our department at Clemson has an Industrial/Organizational graduate program.

IO is a growth area in psychology--and a good candidate grow further because most degree holders are not dependent on the academic job market and are able to get good jobs in industry.

But not a growth area at USM, according to the above reports...

Date: Apr 19, 2004

I think you need to be familiar with the I/O situation within the department of psychology. The I/O program had been down to 2 profs for many years and they could never decide on a third to hire (they hired one a few years ago but he turned out to be horrible and he left within a year). Finally they said they could not recruit in a decent candidate for less than ~55k but the dean’s office baulked at that when psych faculty was starting ~40k. The director then left for at top 10 program and the other has been of the job market every year for the last 3 or so years. Ok, why did they let that happen...well some believe that the psych is spread too thin. USM had 5 psychology programs, clinical, counseling, school, I/O, and experimental. While the higher ups like to cite this as a positive (because we are one of a few in the nation that has that many programs) but others in psych look at it as a disadvantage because they see it as spreading your resources too thin; trying to be a jack of all trades and an expert at none (only the school program has a true national reputation). Therefore, the faculty leaving gave them a good excuse to end the program and refocus their efforts to build up the other programs.

Why do I go into such detail? Just to let you know that there is more to faculty hiring and leaving than you might think. You have to look at each situation individually.

Date: Apr 19, 2004

manova

Date: Apr 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: query
"Sounds simple to me manova. The USM salaries are just too low."

I couldn't agree more!

Date: Apr 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: query
"
The USM salaries are just too low."

I have to agree that the salaries are low. (The cost of living is low here, however.) But most of us did not get into academia for the money. There are lots of factors that go into liking one's job other than money: good colleagues, flexible working conditions, being judged fairly by those who evaluate you, receiving recognition for your efforts, being given what you need to do your job. I only began to feel frustrated about my salary when many of the other factors started to slip--under the Thames administration. Only then did I think, "I'm not getting paid enough to put up with all this!" I might add the the woman candidate who didn't get the president's job recognized that "quality of life" issues are important in a time of financial crisis. Thames has done exactly the opposite of what he should have. Instead of acknowledging that we are doing lots with little, he blamed the faculty for not being "efficient and effective."

In sum, money may be one factor, but that is probably not the main reason people are leaving.

Date: Apr 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: foot soldier
" I have to agree that the salaries are low. (The cost of living is low here, however.) But most of us did not get into academia for the money. There are lots of factors that go into liking one's job other than money: good colleagues, flexible working conditions, being judged fairly by those who evaluate you, receiving recognition for your efforts, being given what you need to do your job. I only began to feel frustrated about my salary when many of the other factors started to slip--under the Thames administration. Only then did I think, "I'm not getting paid enough to put up with all this!" I might add the the woman candidate who didn't get the president's job recognized that "quality of life" issues are important in a time of financial crisis. Thames has done exactly the opposite of what he should have. Instead of acknowledging that we are doing lots with little, he blamed the faculty for not being "efficient and effective." In sum, money may be one factor, but that is probably not the main reason people are leaving."

I agree with most all of above and second it, but I have been very skeptical for a long time of the "cost of living is cheaper here" argument. True, if you buy a house and pay property taxes on that house you are 95% sure of getting a better deal than in most other metropolitan areas of the country. But, we have one the highest sales tax rates (7%) in the nation (even higher than "Taxachusetts") with only medical prescriptions exempted to make up for those relatively low property tax rates, and very little else is cheaper here: not cars, not groceries (other than suffering through Wal Mart's quality of food), not gasoline. And, perhaps most importantly, does the quality of living here make up for the low house costs?