addidtional comment for iddad

Date: Apr 16, 2004

addidtional comment for iddad

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: LSU Grad Student
"Here's something else to consider. Your president, when he took over a couple of years ago, laid you know what of his out on the table and stated that he planned to take a university perpetually stuck at about 12,000 to 14,000 students to the 20,000 student mark in just a few short years. He then promptly gets caught "inventing" about 1,000 students to get there. And you don't think that this person slash and burn admissions standards, probably starting on day 1 in office (probably hour one, minute one) to achieve his goal? I don't doubt that both my admiss standards angle and your Ole Miss angle play a dual role. But you seem to want only one of them to explain things, and not both partially. Well, if it had to go that way here's why I like mine better. Yours is a complex theory/hypothesis, resting on the notion that the bureaucrats running Ole Miss are astute and sophisticated (not something often seen in higher ed). My theory rests on the notion that the guy running your school --- USM --- is a scoundrel, something common as dirt in higher ed. My theory also has the grace of being much, much less complex."

Can't remember the old saying, but isn't there one that criminal investigators frequently quote about the clearest, shortest path being the right one?

Good work, LSU Grad.

Date: Apr 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by:
" Can't remember the old saying, but isn't there one that criminal investigators frequently quote about the clearest, shortest path being the right one? Good work, LSU Grad. "

Occam's Razor.

Date: Apr 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: dr. know
"Occam's Razor."

Supposedly the #1 dictum for research scientists. Isn't SFT a research scientist?

To the list of ways to increase enrollment, don't leave out being the last major university in the state to sign the junior-community college articulation agreement. (I don't know if USM is signatory to the agreement yet, but it was the last hold-out.) By not endorsing the AA, USM effectively tells students that they need to enroll at the university level as freshmen or rising sophomores to avoid loss of transfer credit.

Date: Apr 16, 2004

The following is a comparison of US Dept of Education IPEDS Graduation Rates for the three "comprehensive" public universities plus JSU. The IPEDS Graduation Rates here are based on the Fall 1996 cohort of first-time full-time degree-seeking freshmen. The report tracks these students for 150% of normal degree completion time (6 years).

[This is also a test of the <PRE> html markup tag on this board, so if the following tables are scrambled, you know it didn't work...]

UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI
Graduation rate for all students in cohort. 50.8 %
Bachelor’s degree-seeking students completing a bachelor's degree
Graduation rate within 4 years 21.6 %
Graduation rate within 5 years 43.1 %
Graduation rate within 6 years 50.8 %
Graduation rates within 6 years by gender
Men 42.9 %
Women 55.3 %

UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI
Graduation rate for all students in cohort. 57.0 %
Bachelor’s degree-seeking students completing a bachelor's degree
Graduation rate within 4 years 33.4 %
Graduation rate within 5 years 51.7 %
Graduation rate within 6 years 57.0 %
Graduation rates within 6 years by gender
Men 52.0 %
Women 61.5 %

MISSISSIPPI STATE UNIVERSITY
Graduation rate for all students in cohort. 56.0 %
Bachelor’s degree-seeking students completing a bachelor's degree
Graduation rate within 4 years 24.8 %
Graduation rate within 5 years 47.4 %
Graduation rate within 6 years 56.0 %
Graduation rates within 6 years by gender
Men 52.8 %
Women 59.6 %

JACKSON STATE UNIVERSITY
Graduation rate for all students in cohort. 35.1 %
Bachelor’s degree-seeking students completing a bachelor's degree
Graduation rate within 4 years 15.5 %
Graduation rate within 5 years 30.1 %
Graduation rate within 6 years 35.1 %
Graduation rates within 6 years by gender
Men 27.4 %
Women 41.1 %

Admittedly, these numbers which were reported in 2002 are for freshmen who entered the college & largely attended when Horace Fleming was president. But they do show that the indicators of lower admissions standards pre-date the Thames administration. In other words, I believe he is actively lowering what was already pretty low but not quite as low as JSU (which is probably the goal).

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Supposedly the #1 dictum for research scientists. Isn't SFT a research scientist? To the list of ways to increase enrollment, don't leave out being the last major university in the state to sign the junior-community college articulation agreement. (I don't know if USM is signatory to the agreement yet, but it was the last hold-out.) By not endorsing the AA, USM effectively tells students that they need to enroll at the university level as freshmen or rising sophomores to avoid loss of transfer credit."

I second this. I know that some community colleges are referring their students to anywhere but USM, for multiple reasons:

-- USM not holding up on its end of the articulation agreement.

--accreditational problems with certain departments.

--USM recruiters showing little interest in bringing in community college recruits.

--Louisiana and Alabama universities waiving out-of-state fees to attract community college transfers.

These problems became severe after Shelby entered the presidency. I know this for certain, because of my association with both the community college and USM systems.

Right now, I can name off 15 elementary ed students who transferred from community colleges to Southeastern Louisiana's program because of just such problems as I mentioned above. (There are many in other departments, too, but, five years ago, anyone in elementary ed who went through community colleges in the central and southern region of the state was just assumed to continue at USM. Definitely NOT the case, now.) Recruiters were chilly toward them, their contact with the department chair at USM was less than impressive, and they could go to SELA for the same amount of money that they would spend to come to USM. So they went to SELA--that not only hurts USM, it hurts the state.

Date: Apr 17, 2004

so many comments, so little time.

all i will say is that there are plausible alternative explanations for a lot of what goes on at USM. your statistical analyses are interesting, but don't prove a lot.

before i say this, i don't like SLT. but, i'm not a person who will turn the data to support my dislike. i'm not saying your are either, but i am leery of people with a conclusion in search of data, regardless of their statistical sophistication.

yes, i have a hypothesis--Ole Miss is eating our lunch on the higher ACT students. what evidence supports my point? look at the common data sets and fact books for USM, MSU, and UM for the last few year on the ACT distribution of their entering class. Ole Miss got a Phi Beta Kappa chapter which is a recruiting device. i know recruiters at prestigeous private universities who bemoan Ole Miss's resources. what about two years ago (when shelby came on board)? I don't keep track, so I don't know the time frame. i have a class looking at these issues right now.

Occam's razor and the like--i think it works as well for my position as for your. even-up. i've got a hunch the problems started well before SLT came on board. and I have private information that will support that as well.