SGA & e-mail

Date: May 2, 2004

SGA & e-mail

Date: May 2, 2004

I absolutely agree. I an appalled that my e-mail can be monitered by the administration at any time and for any reason. I have heard that it is common practice in businesses to moniter e-mails, but I am not an employee of USM, nor am I an employee of the state of MS. Actually, I am paying USM for my education. I am not paying them, though, to moniter what I say to my friends, professors, or any other individual through e-mail. It would not be totally unreasonable for OTR/itech (whatever they are being called now) to have students sign a form before aquiring an account with USM stating that they are aware of possible e-mail monitering. In regards to the SGA, I have little faith in them. They have continued to show support for the administration in order to get recomendation letters, increase their budget, and avoid the wrath of Thames. I am very disappointed in the current SGA. Impeach Cain!

Date: May 3, 2004

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040503/OPINION/405030315/1009

This is a great letter to the editor on this topic. Students often email professors about personal issues that are none of Shelby's business. Where are you SGA?

Date: May 3, 2004

what a ridiculous statement. yes, the sga can look into the matter of monitoring emails. but by saying the sga has supported thames and the administration, what a load of crap. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. the sga has not gotten involved until all the facts came out. and what good would it do if they did offer another opinion?

the sga commits itself to pursuing things that are beneficial for improving the quality of life for students. and everyone keeps talking about how the sga hasn't responded, no one, not a soul, has complained directly to walt cain, as in called him or emailed him. if you want him to voice your concerns about monitoring student emails, why don't you contact walt cain yourself?

impeach cain? no, i think not. impeach loftus? maybe. but don't criticize someone when you don't know a dang thing about what they've done or if you yourself haven't contacted them directly. and as far the budget thing goes, the sga hasn't received a larger budget. yes, it has requested one in order to launch some new services for students, but it won't be receiving anything, and isn't guaranteed anything, until july 1. get your facts straight before you make stupid comments.

Date: May 3, 2004

morrisnth,

I am not a student at USM and therefore am afforded no representation by the SGA. I simply urge students to contact the SGA and ask them to have their voices heard by their governance on the issue of the USM administration monitoring student e-mail accounts. I urge students to contact whoever their student representatives are. I only wish that I were a student at USM so that I could do this myself.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"what a ridiculous statement. yes, the sga can look into the matter of monitoring emails. but by saying the sga has supported thames and the administration, what a load of crap. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. the sga has not gotten involved until all the facts came out. and what good would it do if they did offer another opinion?
the sga commits itself to pursuing things that are beneficial for improving the quality of life for students. and everyone keeps talking about how the sga hasn't responded, no one, not a soul, has complained directly to walt cain, as in called him or emailed him.

morrisnth,

I detect more than a little embarrassment in your response here.

The relevant facts (as to whether Frank Glamser and Gary Stringer did anything wrong, let alone anything that merited firing) were known back on March 5. The relevant facts (as to whether Angie Dvorak was really a tenured Associate Professor of English at the University of Kentucky, Lexington) were also known back then. As of last Wednesday, it is further known that the Thames administration not only reserved the right to read everyone's email, it has been reading the email of both faculty members and students.

If the SGA really cares at all about the quality of life for students, it needs to stop parroting the Thames administration line (as you did above) and stand up for its own constituency.

If the students at USM merely needed student representatives of the administration, there would be no need for them to elect a student government. Presumably they voted for this student government because they wanted representatives to the administration.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: morrisnth
", no one, not a soul, has complained directly to walt cain, as in called him or emailed him

Well, if no one has contacted Walt Cain, what are ya'll waiting for? I think it is time for all students to let him know exactly how you feel. If I was a student, I sure would.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"what a ridiculous statement. yes, the sga can look into the matter of monitoring emails. but by saying the sga has supported thames and the administration, what a load of crap. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. the sga has not gotten involved until all the facts came out. and what good would it do if they did offer another opinion? the sga commits itself to pursuing things that are beneficial for improving the quality of life for students. and everyone keeps talking about how the sga hasn't responded, no one, not a soul, has complained directly to walt cain, as in called him or emailed him. if you want him to voice your concerns about monitoring student emails, why don't you contact walt cain yourself? impeach cain? no, i think not. impeach loftus? maybe. but don't criticize someone when you don't know a dang thing about what they've done or if you yourself haven't contacted them directly. and as far the budget thing goes, the sga hasn't received a larger budget. yes, it has requested one in order to launch some new services for students, but it won't be receiving anything, and isn't guaranteed anything, until july 1. get your facts straight before you make stupid comments."

I am so tired of hearing about these mysterious "facts"! morrisnth, you have outed yourself as at least a member of the SGA. The inaugural address by Walt Cain, the proposed new student publication, all point to one fact: the SGA will not come out against Thames because they like getting $100K to put on concerts no one cares about, and faculty parking passes, and the million other things that goes along with being an SGA officer. One does not spend good money on a campaign with no benefits of office!

The SGA is out of touch with the student body. That is why we protested Founder's Day, and that is why I do not look to the SGA for help defending my rights against Shelboo and Co.

Impeace Cain!

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Advocate
""

Probably the major reason I have not contacted the SGA/Walt Cain is because I pretty much know where they stand. And on top of that, what good could they do? They really have no power in the university. They are just there to be seen and to get something pretty on their resume.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: dunno
"Probably the major reason I have not contacted the SGA/Walt Cain is because I pretty much know where they stand. And on top of that, what good could they do? They really have no power in the university. They are just there to be seen and to get something pretty on their resume."

CHALLENGE THEM TO ACT or at least bombard them with complaints. It is our patriotic duty to such things. I bet you to not take the attitude of "what good can it do?" If brave young folks had done that throughout history, we wouldn't be able to live in a free society and express our thoughts and opinions without fear of recrimination.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: doc candidate
"CHALLENGE THEM TO ACT or at least bombard them with complaints. It is our patriotic duty to such things. I bet you to not take the attitude of "what good can it do?" If brave young folks had done that throughout history, we wouldn't be able to live in a free society and express our thoughts and opinions without fear of recrimination."

AMEN!!!

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: dunno
"Probably the major reason I have not contacted the SGA/Walt Cain is because I pretty much know where they stand. And on top of that, what good could they do? They really have no power in the university. They are just there to be seen and to get something pretty on their resume."

In one of his letters to the Senate denying its most recent FOIA request, the Presdient cited the SGA as a model of cooperation that the Senate should emulate . . .

They need to know that he is using him. The faculty cannot convince them of that. You guys might be able to.

Keep up the good work

NO QUARTER

Date: May 3, 2004

It's true that the SGA has no formal power. I've never heard of a Student Government that could shape university policy.

All the same, the SGA can speak on behalf of the students.

So far, it has been rather richly rewarded for not communicating students' genuine concerns to the administration.

Besides, Thames and his henchcrew have very little leverage over the future careers of anyone who serves on the SGA. SGA members have far less to lose, personally, by opposing Thames than USM faculty members do.

The worst that could happen would be an order from Thames dissolving the SGA for daring to resist him. I suspect that there is nothing else the SGA could ever do that would draw so much media coverage--and most of it would be favorable.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 3, 2004

Robert,

what you say is something a lazy student who hasn't done his part would say.

until you complain, until you contact walt cain, you have no grievance with him. he hasn't failed you until you have at least made an attempt to contact him.

as far as not shaping university policy, the sga has done many things in past years to improve the quality of life for students. fall break, online teacher evaluations, extended residence hall visitation hours, improvements in campus safety and lighting, and an effort to improve the quality of academic advisement are things on a long list of what sga has done.

has the sga made some mistakes? of course. the premature resolution in support of dvorak and the resolution for the education of students, whatever it was, probably dumb. but every governing body doesn't do everything right.

and just like every other governing body, there are always two schools of thought. cain never supported a $100,000 concert last year- he and loftus were from different spectrums of ideology. and the senate that passed the "education of the students" resolution, the majority of them aren't even in the student senate anymore.

so before you claim people "corrupt" or "pawns", why don't you make an attempt to contact them, to express your view, and hear what they are already doing about it? all these people who are claiming cain and his administration as scared have yet to make a direct complaint to them. and until you do, you have no justification for what you say.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"Robert, what you say is something a lazy student who hasn't done his part would say. until you complain, until you contact walt cain, you have no grievance with him. he hasn't failed you until you have at least made an attempt to contact him. as far as not shaping university policy, the sga has done many things in past years to improve the quality of life for students. fall break, online teacher evaluations, extended residence hall visitation hours, improvements in campus safety and lighting, and an effort to improve the quality of academic advisement are things on a long list of what sga has done. has the sga made some mistakes? of course. the premature resolution in support of dvorak and the resolution for the education of students, whatever it was, probably dumb. but every governing body doesn't do everything right. and just like every other governing body, there are always two schools of thought. cain never supported a $100,000 concert last year- he and loftus were from different spectrums of ideology. and the senate that passed the "education of the students" resolution, the majority of them aren't even in the student senate anymore. so before you claim people "corrupt" or "pawns", why don't you make an attempt to contact them, to express your view, and hear what they are already doing about it? all these people who are claiming cain and his administration as scared have yet to make a direct complaint to them. and until you do, you have no justification for what you say."

Whoever You Are,

We know that students have contacted Walt Cain. He has ignored their requests for help. If you have an direct line to Mr. Cain, please let him know that students are outraged by the treatment of Rachel Quinlivan, one of their own, during the hearings. No one should have to contact Mr. Cain about this, though. If he can read, he should know that the Thames administration is now using students as pawns for his own power-grabs, and is also monitoring their emails. Frankly, I'm surprised that the SGA hasn't taken up this cause yet, as it is a direct assault on students' rights. Oh, wait, I forgot that Rachel works for the Student Printz, and we all know that they don't really count since they are just mouthpieces for faculty members anyway! (Sarcasm note).

If Mr. Cain can't see the damage that is happening to his rights to free speech happening in front of his own eyes, then I have little hope for him as an effective leader.

Date: May 3, 2004

truth,

what a stupid thing you say with no evidence to back it up. "we know that people have contacted walt cain?" what a ridiculous statement. why don't you contact him and see why he hasn't publicly acted? call him up. email him. but make your comment to him.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" Whoever You Are, We know that students have contacted Walt Cain. He has ignored their requests for help. If you have an direct line to Mr. Cain, please let him know that students are outraged by the treatment of Rachel Quinlivan, one of their own, during the hearings. No one should have to contact Mr. Cain about this, though. If he can read, he should know that the Thames administration is now using students as pawns for his own power-grabs, and is also monitoring their emails. Frankly, I'm surprised that the SGA hasn't taken up this cause yet, as it is a direct assault on students' rights. Oh, wait, I forgot that Rachel works for the Student Printz, and we all know that they don't really count since they are just mouthpieces for faculty members anyway! (Sarcasm note). If Mr. Cain can't see the damage that is happening to his rights to free speech happening in front of his own eyes, then I have little hope for him as an effective leader."

And competition with the new Shelby PR rag, the Farcity Voice.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"truth, what a stupid thing you say with no evidence to back it up. "we know that people have contacted walt cain?" what a ridiculous statement. why don't you contact him and see why he hasn't publicly acted? call him up. email him. but make your comment to him."

It isn't OUR job to contact Cain to "see if he has acted." Do you recall his condoning Thames in the paper this past week?

And where is his voice NOW? HE is the SGA president--it's HIS job to make a public statement, NOT our jobs to call him to gauge his feelings.

To suggest it IS our responsibility is, quite frankly, and indication of either ignorance or stupidity.

Date: May 3, 2004

better than the stupid printz.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" If Mr. Cain can't see the damage that is happening to his rights to free speech happening in front of his own eyes, then I have little hope for him as an effective leader."

True leadership from SGA? Bwahahahaha!

SGA has not taken a single pro-student stand throughout this whole ordeal. They are not leaders--they are milquetoast wannabes who know on which side their bread is buttered.

Where'd all that extra money come from? They don't know. why should they check into it. Shelby tells em it's good, then it's good. /sarcasm

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"better than the stupid printz."

Yeah, we shall see next fall when the Printz stands are empty because everyone has already picked up issues, and the Farcity Voice is still lying in the hamper.

Wooo...did I hit a raw nerve with you? You are spitting venom! Wish you would show as much concern about the TRAMPLING OF USM STUDENTS' FIRST AND FOURTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS as you do about your silly little PR rag that no one will read.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"Robert,
what you say is something a lazy student who hasn't done his part would say.
"

morrisnth,

Gimme a break!

First, I'm a faculty member at another institution, not a student, so Walt Cain has no interest in hearing from me.

Second, I've served on the Clemson Faculty Senate and had to go up, more than once, against Senators who were representing the administration to the faculty. So I know how such bodies can be co-opted, and what it takes to fight that.

Instead of delivering a campaign speech about all of the tremendously important things Student Government does, you should be defending your constituents against the depredations of a tyrannical administration that gives itself the right to read their email.

And if that isn't enough, read the scary Hanbury memo to the Deans, on another thread, and ask yourself whether USM students should want people like Thames and Hanbury occupying any position of authority in their university.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"truth, what a stupid thing you say with no evidence to back it up. "we know that people have contacted walt cain?" what a ridiculous statement. why don't you contact him and see why he hasn't publicly acted? call him up. email him. but make your comment to him."

If you were a regular reader of this board (or a reader at all!), you would know that I'm an alum living in another state. Walt Cain doesn't represent me, therefore, I have not contacted him. But I know students who have. You need to engage what little brain cells you have before making such an off-the-wall statement that has no merit. If you are a current student at USM, then I truly do fear for the future.

Date: May 3, 2004

BRAVO - Truth. Minion alert, trying to besmirch people like Truth in order to make an even sadder case for yourself - isn't going to work.

No Quarter.

Date: May 3, 2004

I love how everyone says, "the students are not being represented," or "the students do not like Thames." Do you realize that the only college (with a very small number of exceptions) don't care about this one bit. Liberal Arts is the only voice that you hear through this entire matter.

I myself am a Biology major. I have many friends in Business. We have discussed this many times, and we all come to the conclusion that our colleges like Dr. Thames and support him. We, being logically minded, realize that he was right in firing Glamser and Stringer. I am not a watchdog for Thames, I just realize the truth when I see it. If perhaps you liberal arts idiots were not so bred into causing controversy, then you would realize that when you have two teachers that try and tear a university apart, then it eventually will be torn.

Granted, right now Southern Miss certainly isn't looking great...but this is not the first time in our history that this sort of thing has happened, and it won't be the last. You petty little people that critisize our SGA and our Administration need to get out and see the world as it really is, not as you see it from your own peer groups.

Oh, and for those of you who do not attend USM, mind your own damn business. I'm sure you have plenty of problems yourself.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"I love how everyone says, "the students are not being represented," or "the students do not like Thames." Do you realize that the only college (with a very small number of exceptions) don't care about this one bit. Liberal Arts is the only voice that you hear through this entire matter. I myself am a Biology major. I have many friends in Business. We have discussed this many times, and we all come to the conclusion that our colleges like Dr. Thames and support him. We, being logically minded, realize that he was right in firing Glamser and Stringer. I am not a watchdog for Thames, I just realize the truth when I see it. If perhaps you liberal arts idiots were not so bred into causing controversy, then you would realize that when you have two teachers that try and tear a university apart, then it eventually will be torn. Granted, right now Southern Miss certainly isn't looking great...but this is not the first time in our history that this sort of thing has happened, and it won't be the last. You petty little people that critisize our SGA and our Administration need to get out and see the world as it really is, not as you see it from your own peer groups. Oh, and for those of you who do not attend USM, mind your own damn business. I'm sure you have plenty of problems yourself."

Your "handle," Idiotbomber, speaks volumes. Glad that some "Liberal Arts" professor was around to teach you how to think critically...oh, wait, you must have slept through that class!

Find a bigger perspective here, Grasshopper.

Date: May 3, 2004

ok, if you're not a usm student, then why the devil do you attempt to make statements on something you know absolutely nothing about?

and "Fire Shelby", i assume you are a faculty member. you don't know anything about what the sga does or what it has been doing. and why do you so quickly assume that i have a connection with the sga? and do you know why you don't know what "stands" the sga takes? b/c the stupid printz doesn't want students to know facts. they slant every article in order to stir up controversy, and by next year, the silent majority of intelligent students will have a much greater source of real news and unbiased information.

so if you're not in the university now, you have no way of making an educated statement about what the sga does or just about this whole affair in general. and truth, no one has contacted walt cain, he made that clear in a statement a week ago. so students- if you have a grievance, why don't you contact your student body president and quit you're complaining that he hasn't done anything?

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"Do you realize that the only college (with a very small number of exceptions) don't care about this one bit. "

THANK YOU LIBERAL ARTS PROFS FOR TEACHING YOUR STUDENTS TO QUESTION! And to write grammatically correct sentences. (Gee, I remember a little rule from elementary school about verb-subject agreement.)

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"and "Fire Shelby", i assume you are a faculty member. you don't know anything about what the sga does or what it has been doing. "

Now why would you assume that?

Date: May 3, 2004

I am not in liberal arts. In fact, I would say that I am about as far from liberal arts as one could be. Every single one of my professors have made at least one comment that gave me insight as to what side they were on. It was not Shelby's.

I dont want someone to chuckle when I say that I got my degree from Southern. I care because I am proud of the work I have put into getting my degree and I want it to mean something.

When someone questions the resume of an administrator, the administrator should be more than happy to talk for hours about their educational and work experiences. They should be proud of these accomplishments. The fact that Dvorak acted as if something was to hide, is what started all of this. She claimed she would have given the information, but she never offered it. To this day she has avoided the REAL questions.

AND ABOUT THE SGA
I cannot rely on any representative that gives out doughnuts for votes (I did eat a couple of the doughnuts though). USM's SGA is a resume builder, nothing more.

NEXT YEAR... I am not voting for anyone to be on SGA that isn't a member of this site.. FIRE SHELBY FOR PRESIDENT

Date: May 3, 2004

Its funny to think that Dvorak could have said "Yes, I lied on my resume" She would then argue that because there was no national search, she was not putting herself in front of other candidates. And would probably still have her job

Date: May 3, 2004

Resume builder? Try people who refuse to sit on the sidelines and just complain, but take an active role in solving the problems of the university.

Enjoy that fall break last year? Well it was the SGA that presented the accurate plan (not the faculty senate) and got it approved. Seems like a few people were doing more than resume building.

People that make that claim are too lazy to get involved in improving things for their fellow students.

And also, wasn't the guy elected VP the one who spent the least? (like $20 or something?) And the guy that spent several thousand was the one that lost for president. Get your facts straight.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: morrisnth
"ok, if you're not a usm student, then why the devil do you attempt to make statements on something you know absolutely nothing about? and "Fire Shelby", i assume you are a faculty member. you don't know anything about what the sga does or what it has been doing. and why do you so quickly assume that i have a connection with the sga? and do you know why you don't know what "stands" the sga takes? b/c the stupid printz doesn't want students to know facts. they slant every article in order to stir up controversy, and by next year, the silent majority of intelligent students will have a much greater source of real news and unbiased information. so if you're not in the university now, you have no way of making an educated statement about what the sga does or just about this whole affair in general. and truth, no one has contacted walt cain, he made that clear in a statement a week ago. so students- if you have a grievance, why don't you contact your student body president and quit you're complaining that he hasn't done anything? "

Now, I'm supposed to believe what Walt Cain says? The man who created "the third side" of an argument? (See Webster's glossary for that gem). I know all I need to know about the SGA. They haven't taken a stand on the USM President attacking a student. They haven't taken a stand on email surveillance of students at USM. Can you answer those questions for me?

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: marks
"Resume builder? Try people who refuse to sit on the sidelines and just complain, but take an active role in solving the problems of the university. Enjoy that fall break last year? Well it was the SGA that presented the accurate plan (not the faculty senate) and got it approved. Seems like a few people were doing more than resume building. People that make that claim are too lazy to get involved in improving things for their fellow students. And also, wasn't the guy elected VP the one who spent the least? (like $20 or something?) And the guy that spent several thousand was the one that lost for president. Get your facts straight. "

What "problems" has the SGA "solved" lately? Presidential attacks on students? Covert email surveillance? Try tackling some real problems, SGA-ers, then you might have some credibility here in this forum.

Fall Break...puh-leaze. Just another excuse to drink (see Spring Break).

Date: May 3, 2004

Seriously?? come on.. Getting fall break is far from solving university problems.. Doing research and being active on this site has done more for the university than 90% of the SGA.

I do not sit on the sidelines in any way. I am active in many political issues regarding the university.

The SGA this is advocating popular issues (vacation) and nothing more.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: marks
"Resume builder? Try people who refuse to sit on the sidelines and just complain, but take an active role in solving the problems of the university. Enjoy that fall break last year? Well it was the SGA that presented the accurate plan (not the faculty senate) and got it approved. Seems like a few people were doing more than resume building. People that make that claim are too lazy to get involved in improving things for their fellow students. And also, wasn't the guy elected VP the one who spent the least? (like $20 or something?) And the guy that spent several thousand was the one that lost for president. Get your facts straight. "

No, actually, Walt Cain spent thousands.

Date: May 3, 2004

Yes, I apoligize for my grammatical mistakes. My mind is too focused on actually doing all of my school work. It has become apparent to me that I am one of the only ones around this forum that actually has this problem, since you all apparantly have spent a great deal of time researching your pointless and horribly self-defeating arguments.

I feel that I can speak for the silent majority when I say that the student body is not against Dr. Thames, only the unsilent minority is. For us that are too busy doing what we came to college to do, we are sick of you pathetic idiots whining and complaining about something that, in historical context, does not matter. I would suggest you doing something constructive with your time. Try researching the hundreds of benifits that both Thames and SGA has made for our university. It is odvious that you have focused your research in only negative ways...which is not the proper way of doing research. Any "good" liberal arts major would tell you that in order to make a sound argument, you must have the facts from both sides. You all only have one, and that is to me more embarrasing to say that you graduated from this university being this stupid...if you would do me a favor, tell everyone you graduated from MSU. It would make Southern Miss look so much better.

Date: May 3, 2004

"Try researching the hundreds of benifits that both Thames and SGA has made for our university. "

Darlin, list a few of those for me, please. I'm old, I forget.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"Yes, I apoligize for my grammatical mistakes. My mind is too focused on actually doing all of my school work. It has become apparent to me that I am one of the only ones around this forum that actually has this problem, since you all apparantly have spent a great deal of time researching your pointless and horribly self-defeating arguments. I feel that I can speak for the silent majority when I say that the student body is not against Dr. Thames, only the unsilent minority is. For us that are too busy doing what we came to college to do, we are sick of you pathetic idiots whining and complaining about something that, in historical context, does not matter. I would suggest you doing something constructive with your time. Try researching the hundreds of benifits that both Thames and SGA has made for our university. It is odvious that you have focused your research in only negative ways...which is not the proper way of doing research. Any "good" liberal arts major would tell you that in order to make a sound argument, you must have the facts from both sides. You all only have one, and that is to me more embarrasing to say that you graduated from this university being this stupid...if you would do me a favor, tell everyone you graduated from MSU. It would make Southern Miss look so much better."

This person isn't even worthy of a replay. Sounds like this could be coming from a Thames relative or a Dvorak//Hanbury clone.

Date: May 3, 2004

Hope I made it "odvious" that I meant REPLAY rather than reply but it's the same nasty troll'n.

Date: May 3, 2004

Oh and here comes the typical "brush off the truth" comeback. No, I am not at all affiliated with Dr. Thames or Dvorack. I have merely read the paper during lunch, watched the news during dinner, and talked to all of the people around me on my way from class and work.

Do you honestly respect yourselves by thinking this way. Perhaps there is the little sense of guilt that you have for bringing down the university that I, as well as fifteen-thousand other people, love and want to see thrive.

Accomplishments from Dr. Thames (just the ones that I am familiar with)

Balanced a failing budget for USM; Moulded USM like the most prestigeous universities in the nation; attracted over 50 million dollars is grants and aid for research in all fields, has held a meeting with reps. from the USM faculty to discuss issues with teaching (which he is the 1st president to ever do so), helped to persuade state legislature to increase funding to USM.

Accomplishments of SGA:

Building maintance; assisting faculty and USM employees is routine work; student advisement reform; financial aid reform; Shoemaker Square construction; Multiple student forums to address issues; campus cleanups; freshman involvement forums and parties; assistance in legislating for addition funding in Jackson, mediation between faculty and students, pick-a-prof website, assistance with design and funding of new student union, enforcement of USM policies, judicial system for arguments on traffic tickets and towing, Homecoming events, Mrs. USM pageant.

These are only the things that I know of. Every day I hear of something else, and everyday I am impressed more. Tell me, are any of these things that you did not know? I'm sure that if you take the time to look a little deeper, you will find more.

Date: May 3, 2004

Are we to believe that Walt Cain is some sort of human ostrich who has no knowledge of what's going on on this campus? That seems to be the argument that Morrisnth (sorry if spelled wrong) is making. Walt Cain, being the highest elected student representative, owes it to the students to take a stand on the issue whether or not he has been directly contacted by individuals because, certainly, he can see what is happenning. If Walt Cain really is a true leader, then he will do just that--lead.
Again, to say that noone has contacted Walt Cain and therefore he has no responsibility to take a stand is a weak excuse at best, and somewhat insulting to Mr. Cain. While the allegations that no students have individually contacted Cain is debatable, we can say very confidently that NO student called him to propose Walt Cain's "Third Position of Perpetual Education."

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"You all only have one, and that is to me more embarrasing to say that you graduated from this university being this stupid...if you would do me a favor, tell everyone you graduated from MSU. It would make Southern Miss look so much better."

If you are representative of undergrads in the biology department today, then things have certainly taken a nose dive since I was there. Well, I imagine I was there before you were toilet trained. <sigh>

Anybody in CoST who thinks that a well-rounded education can omit liberal arts is sadly deluded.

Date: May 3, 2004

How is Walt Cain supposed to take a stand on this issue. Some parts of the campus are against Thames, some parts are for, and some parts go to the protests because their teachers gave them bonus points to go (and I know this for a fact).

I do not want Mr. Cain to take a stand on this issue, because any stance that he makes is going to be a wrong one. The best thing that the SGA can do is to stay neutral and not take sides. Why make an enemy of the administration or faculty? Do you really think that's how they get things done, by ****ing off the people that they have to work with? Think about it.

Date: May 3, 2004

"Moulded USM like the most prestigeous universities in the nation"

I quote Dr. Neil McMillen: Great universities are not at war with their faculties.

I have attended two great universities, Northwestern and Vanderbilt, and a couple of pretty good ones. I can tell you that nothing like the situation at USM is going on anywhere else. Faculty at great universities are aghast at our situation. Have you heard of the Chronicle of Higher Education? It is the Wall Street Journal, or the New York Times, of universities. It is where people looking for jobs in academia go for information. USM has already been featured twice, and not in a very good way. Do you know what accreditation means? When significant programs (like nursing) begin to lose their accreditation, it will be serious and bad for USM. It is already beginning.

Please do not tell the people on this board to find something else to do. There are more published writers and prominent, creative people in various disciplines, on this one board than you can imagine.

Date: May 3, 2004

"For us that are too busy doing what we came to college to do, we are sick of you pathetic idiots whining and complaining about something that, in historical context, does not matter. I would suggest you doing something constructive with your time."

For the record, when is the last time you worked at a soup kitchen, or wrote a letter protesting inhumane treatment of another human being, or even rescued a kitten stuck in a tree? Giving money is not "constructive" all the time. I am sickened by this thread's "whining" by the pro-Thames students. I have worked hard to get a degree from an excellent department with dedicated faculty, who have had one of their own unceremoniously kicked out of his office for no other reason than questioning the status quo. I will work tirelessly for him and Dr. Stringer, and any other professor OR student whose rights are violated on this campus. This is a good cause; freedom of speech was imprtant enough to spur a war with England during the 1770's and it is improtant enough today for me tolose a few extra hours of sleep speaking my mind about the situation on MY campus. The alumni and faculty from other universities who post here are intelligent enough to see the broader picture- this doesn't just involve USM, it involves every one in the academic community. If it can happen here at USM, it can happen anywhere. It has before, at certain universities.

For the record, Walt Cain HAS spoken to students (he called a friend of mine at home!) and doesn't seem to care that we are worried about the state of this university. I repeat, the SGA is more worried about their "perks", like faculty parking and the Farcity Voice than the rights of the students they represent. Until they get off their fence, I will continue in my total and complete disrespect of their position as my representatives.

Cindy Ponder, graduate student

VP, USMACLU

(Someone expel me, if you dare!)

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
" For us that are too busy doing what we came to college to do, we are sick of you pathetic idiots whining and complaining about something that, in historical context, does not matter. "

Ummmm....it's obvious that a course you have not yet taken is English 101. If your historical knowledge is as brilliant as your grammatical skills...

You are obviously a blind follower who has never been taught to question authority. Thank god my father taught me differently.

Date: May 3, 2004

Invictus, I think that idiotbomber is right. I am a liberal arts major, and I am quite frankly embarrased to say that I belong to this college. I am ashamed of the people that I go to class with, and I wish that there was something that I could do about it.

I'm not sure whether The College of Science and Technology takes any classes in liberal arts (I'm assuming they do), but I think that they may be better off having a logical mindset.

I just wish all of this would stop and we could all just heal. I really like this school, and I really want to see it succeed. If we would just work together in a positive way, then I think that everyone would be much happier.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
""Try researching the hundreds of benifits that both Thames and SGA has made for our university. " Darlin, list a few of those for me, please. I'm old, I forget."

You may be old--you are also precious!

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"How is Walt Cain supposed to take a stand on this issue. Some parts of the campus are against Thames, some parts are for, and some parts go to the protests because their teachers gave them bonus points to go (and I know this for a fact).
I do not want Mr. Cain to take a stand on this issue, because any stance that he makes is going to be a wrong one. The best thing that the SGA can do is to stay neutral and not take sides. Why make an enemy of the administration or faculty? Do you really think that's how they get things done, by ****ing off the people that they have to work with? Think about it."

Hey, idiotbomber, please stop for a second and reread what you just said. A leader has to evaluate things and then take a stand. That's the essence of LEADERSHIP. Walt could do this 2 ways; he could do it the democratic way and try to find out where the majority of feelings are on campus, or he could evaluate the evidence for himself and take a personal stand based on the principles that got him elected.

Date: May 3, 2004

Both morrisnth and idiotbomber are missing the point. The quality of a university is measured by the quality of its faculty and their accomplishments, not by who is president of the university. Both the numbers of faculty and the national reputations of the USM faculty in general have declined and that decline will accelerate. USM does not pay market salaries and must depend on other positive attributes to attract quality faculty. SFT has rather rapidly decimated the category of positive attributes. Going to national meetings to recruit has not been easy for a number of reasons; (1)salaries, (2)Mississippi does not have a good reputation nationally, (3) USM has heavier teaching loads than many of our peer institutions. Add to this the state of siege that exists here, and any prospective faculty member will view taking a position here as risky. Now we get to add another dimension. If you come here as a new faculty, your emails will be monitored. Hopefully you get the picture.

Since you cannot be expected to have a complete grasp of these issues, I will make a relevant example for you. Picture being in a class where you are treated with no respect, denigrated and insulted if you question anything, and your grade is calculated in an "unfair" and capricious manner. If you dare complain, the instructor (professor)will fire you (give you the grade of F) even though you have earned an A on classwork and tests. Would you have the same cavalier attitude about the situation, or would you look for redress of this arbitary treatment? We all know the answer. Students demand to be treated fairly and with respect and should receive that respectful and fair treatment. Faculty have the same set of expectations of admistrators, and most universities attempt to meet these faculty expectations. USM does not.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: Publius
" While the allegations that no students have individually contacted Cain is debatable, we can say very confidently that NO student called him to propose Walt Cain's "Third Position of Perpetual Education." "

"Third Position" = choosing to hang one's self on the horns of a dilemma.

Date: May 3, 2004

FARCITY Voice - I love it.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"I love how everyone says, "the students are not being represented," or "the students do not like Thames." "

Ahhhh... "Everyone?" So the majority isn't as silent as you would have us believe, is it?

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: penwriter4USM
" I'm not sure whether The College of Science and Technology takes any classes in liberal arts (I'm assuming they do), but I think that they may be better off having a logical mindset. "

Please apply logic to the situation at USM and draw a conclusion.

Waiting...

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: educator
"FARCITY Voice - I love it."

LOL. Thanks!

(Webster? You listening??)

Date: May 3, 2004

This will be my last post, for I have to study for a lab final in a few days. To the suprise of many of you, I myself have written and had published 3 books already in my life. I have also written mutiple scientific papers and have critiqued many more.

I have also spent countless hours volunteering my time and energy (which I tend to have little of both lately) towards what is right and good. I don't spend my time saving cats from trees...I'm more interested in saving soldiers from captivity or helping starving children in Afghanistan. So no one has any right to critisize me on any manner of helping others.

(God should be capitalized)

I will conclude by saying that I do love everyone at this school. Whether we have our differences or not, we are still all in this together, and we must get through this together. I don't think that fighting an endless fight is going to make USM improve, but I do think that hard work, good grades, and lending a helping hand will. I look forward to the future of Southern Miss, and I feel wholeheartedly that when I come back after medical school ends and look around the campus, it will be a beautiful, friendly, efficient powerhouse that challenges the best universities in the nation.

I love Southern Miss. If you do too, then please try to mend the wounds and keep going. Causing chaos only holds this university back.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by:
"You may be old--you are also precious! "

Dammnation, I was going for "gritty old broad"

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"Accomplishments from Dr. Thames (just the ones that I am familiar with) Balanced a failing budget for USM;

How would we know that he has balanced a failing budget when he refuses to release budget information (i.e. repeated requests from the Faculty Senate for salary raise information)? Looks like a funny money shell game to me.

Moulded USM like the most prestigeous universities in the nation;

??? Sorry, but I work at one of those universities, and everyone I talk to on my campus these days thinks SFT is an embarrassment to academia.

attracted over 50 million dollars is grants and aid for research in all fields,

SFT hasn't done this...that would be FACULTY MEMBERS who have written those grants (except for the Polymer Science Dept. which has a hired grant writer for this purpose).

has held a meeting with reps. from the USM faculty to discuss issues with teaching (which he is the 1st president to ever do so),

?? When did this happen? Before or after SFT told the Faculty Senate, the representative body for faculty, that he would no longer hold meetings with them?

helped to persuade state legislature to increase funding to USM.

Can't speak to this one. See, I'm admitting this fact instead of blabbering on about something that I don't know about. (insert sarcasm icon)

Accomplishments of SGA: Building maintance; assisting faculty and USM employees is routine work;

??what does this mean??

student advisement reform; financial aid reform; Shoemaker Square construction; Multiple student forums to address issues;

Sounds like a lot of "sitting around and discussing issues"--I thought you guys were against that?

campus cleanups; freshman involvement forums and parties; assistance in legislating for addition funding in Jackson, mediation between faculty and students, pick-a-prof website, assistance with design and funding of new student union, enforcement of USM policies, judicial system for arguments on traffic tickets and towing, Homecoming events, Mrs. USM pageant.

Most of these things sound like the usual stuff that SGA does. Tell me, what has this SGA done (other than Fall Break) that has made a real difference for students? More importantly, what has the SGA done in terms of taking a principled stand on any issue that wasn't SFT-approved?

These are only the things that I know of. Every day I hear of something else, and everyday I am impressed more. Tell me, are any of these things that you did not know? I'm sure that if you take the time to look a little deeper, you will find more."

Unfortunately, most of these things are typical SGA-type events. Until the SGA comes out with a principled stand against covert email surveillance and a public and slanderous attack of a student by the president, then, frankly, I don't think the SGA is worth the ink on their cute, bubble-lettered signs.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"This will be my last post, for I have to study for a lab final in a few days. To the suprise of many of you, I myself have written and had published 3 books already in my life. I have also written mutiple scientific papers and have critiqued many more. I have also spent countless hours volunteering my time and energy (which I tend to have little of both lately) towards what is right and good. I don't spend my time saving cats from trees...I'm more interested in saving soldiers from captivity or helping starving children in Afghanistan. So no one has any right to critisize me on any manner of helping others. (God should be capitalized) I will conclude by saying that I do love everyone at this school. Whether we have our differences or not, we are still all in this together, and we must get through this together. I don't think that fighting an endless fight is going to make USM improve, but I do think that hard work, good grades, and lending a helping hand will. I look forward to the future of Southern Miss, and I feel wholeheartedly that when I come back after medical school ends and look around the campus, it will be a beautiful, friendly, efficient powerhouse that challenges the best universities in the nation. I love Southern Miss. If you do too, then please try to mend the wounds and keep going. Causing chaos only holds this university back."

Goodnight.

Date: May 3, 2004

I apologize, I was mistaken. Jared Loftus called my friend at home. The point is, Walt Cain and Co. know that the students of USM are upset; they attended the protest in April and could not have misunderstood our protest at Founder's Day. We will not be sold out by our SGA for parking and concerts.

"Out lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter."

-Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Date: May 3, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
" Causing chaos only holds this university back."

Tell that to SFT and Jack Hanbury and Roy Klumb. Goodnight.

Date: May 3, 2004

Professor Campbell,

Are you an economics professor? I might know you from another MS university.

Date: May 3, 2004

The Mrs. USM pagent; what is that? I was walking by the union last semester and was confronted a handfull of times by girls introducing themselves and asking for me to vote for them. I asked one of the girls what being Mrs USM means or what do you get? She replied, my picture will go in the yearbook. My question, what does this have to do with student wellbeing? How is this helping me?

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Wonderer
"Professor Campbell, Are you an economics professor? I might know you from another MS university. "

I'm a psychology professor, at Clemson.

The last time I was in Mississippi, I was there for a few days to interview a retired jazz musician (music history is a sideline of mine). I've never worked for a university in Mississippi.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 4, 2004

idiotbomber,

Most students think they work hard, and that professors don't. (Experimental Psychology students at Clemson have done several surveys for class projects: They show that undergraduates, when asked to estimate, report working many more hours per week than they believe professors do. And their estimates are far lower than professors' reports of the number of hours they work per week).

Administrators and their political sponsors take advantage of what students don't know.

morrisnth and marks,

If you want more grant-funded research at a university, you hire more professors who do grant funded research (the big-ticket stuff is predominantly in the sciences and engineering) and reward those who bring in the big grants with big raises. Whether single-minded pursuit of grant-funded research is a good strategy, except at all-engineering institutions, is something we can discuss on another thread.

Getting more grant-funded research is not rocket science, though to be competitive for some grants, you have to get private donors or the state legislature (good luck there!) to pay for more facilities. And there is no need for Shelby Thames-style tactics to promote grant-funded research. It's being done daily by presidents, provosts, and deans who have their faults, but just don't behave like Shelby Thames.

Oh, and by trying to fire Gary Stringer, Thames tried to eliminate a professor who is doing some big-ticket grant-funded research. Good strategy, huh?

Before praising a fool like Thames, first learn what the good, or even the fair-to-middlin' presidents typically try to do, and how they typically get it done.

And...

Let me tell you a tale from my grad student days at the University of Texas, Austin.

UT students became so irate at the uselessness of their student government, and its manifest failre to stand up to the administration on anything, that

First, they elected a Student Government president and VP who ran on absurdist ticket called Art and Sausages (Campaign platform: UT should change its motto to "Money talks.")

Second, after having some fun while the absurdists got their year in the limelight, they held a referendum and abolished SG.

Two or three years later, after the resume-padders found a way to sneak Student Government back in, protest votes for a cartoon character named Hank T. Hallucination (campaign slogan: "Get real") greatly outnumbered the votes for the human candidates.

If SGA won't get off its duff and speak up for students in the current crisis, USM students ought to consider holding a referendum to abolish it.

It's been done before.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 4, 2004

Well, I'm one of those outside observers. Albeit one who has always been proud to have received my undergraduate education at USM. I've been following this story ever since it appeared in the Chronicle. I listened to the hearing and have spent way too much time reading the message boards. This board however is really disturbing to me. I can only imagine how difficult this entire issue is for you folks at USM. But the tone of these messages has deteriorated beyond reason. And arguments over the accomplishments (or not) of the SGA? Come on. Is that really the most important topic of conversation? In my experience faculty are usually disappointed with the complacent majortity of students (as they see it). And most students probably feel faculty spend too much time on issues that 'don't matter'. This is probably a universal paradox.
May I appeal to you all to at the very least elevate your language and your thoughts? We all believe in dialogue. Let's make a case with substantive facts in a well reasoned manner. Let's lose the name calling of those with whom we are not in agreement.

Very sincerely,

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: penwriter4USM
"
I'm not sure whether The College of Science and Technology takes any classes in liberal arts (I'm assuming they do), but I think that they may be better off having a logical mindset."

Trust me. I spent over a decade wandering around CoST as a student (3 degrees). I spend another 25 years teaching science (at other institutions). A "logical mindset" is not any more characteristic of students in science than it is anywhere else.

It usually boils down to a perception that good-paying jobs are easier to find with a science degree. Ask any pre-med major why they want to be a doctor; money is going to be high on the list.

The situation gets even more grave in technology disciplines where the focus is almost entirely on learning immediately saleable skills. The real focus in the sciences & technology, as in any other discipline really, is fitting the students with appropriate "blinders" (as in what were once put on mules) so that they don't recognize things that disagree with the zeitgeist of that particular field of study.

Those blinders are very comforting, very similar to religious dogma. They keep you from having to think about anything but what's in the separatory funnel. Without them technology would have a hard time advancing. But with them, science in the truest sense stagnates until somebody shakes them off & realizes that things aren't they way the appear to be. That is called "revolutionary science," BTW.

The thing that amazes me about Dr. Thames is that, being he is a scientist, why is he so authoritarian? Aren't scientists supposed to evaluate data & question everything? The answer is that he is a "normal scientist" rather than a "paradigm buster." If these terms are unfamiliar, as they probably are to an undergrad in CoST, I suggest you find a copy of T.S. Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions & read it.

After that find a copy of Ernst Mayr's Growth of Biological Thought & attempt to read it. But be warned, Mayr assumes that a modicum of background in history, sociology & philosophy is required to be a biologist. He also takes a dim view of chemists.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: drtdub
"And arguments over the accomplishments (or not) of the SGA? Come on. Is that really the most important topic of conversation? "

It is to students who elected SGA officers who made promises to represent them. Many students now feel that SGA is beholden only to the university administration and is not considering students' interests.

Many of the people on this board who are critical of SGA are indeed USM students who have EVERY RIGHT to criticize them.

(Just in case you didn't know, though, less than 1/10 of the student body voted in the last SGA election. SGA at USM has earned a reputation of do-nothingness, so many students see them as insignificant. There are other student groups on campus that are just as, if not more, effective.)

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Cossack
"Both morrisnth and idiotbomber are missing the point. The quality of a university is measured by the quality of its faculty and their accomplishments, not by who is president of the university. Both the numbers of faculty and the national reputations of the USM faculty in general have declined and that decline will accelerate. USM does not pay market salaries and must depend on other positive attributes to attract quality faculty. SFT has rather rapidly decimated the category of positive attributes. Going to national meetings to recruit has not been easy for a number of reasons; (1)salaries, (2)Mississippi does not have a good reputation nationally, (3) USM has heavier teaching loads than many of our peer institutions. Add to this the state of siege that exists here, and any prospective faculty member will view taking a position here as risky. Now we get to add another dimension. If you come here as a new faculty, your emails will be monitored. Hopefully you get the picture. Since you cannot be expected to have a complete grasp of these issues, I will make a relevant example for you. Picture being in a class where you are treated with no respect, denigrated and insulted if you question anything, and your grade is calculated in an "unfair" and capricious manner. If you dare complain, the instructor (professor)will fire you (give you the grade of F) even though you have earned an A on classwork and tests. Would you have the same cavalier attitude about the situation, or would you look for redress of this arbitary treatment? We all know the answer. Students demand to be treated fairly and with respect and should receive that respectful and fair treatment. Faculty have the same set of expectations of admistrators, and most universities attempt to meet these faculty expectations. USM does not."

This is one of the best contributions to the board I have read. The points it makes should be stressed in letters to public officials and to public media.

Date: May 4, 2004

I am in CoST. Many of us are active..

POINT BLANK.. IF you arent a member of this site, I am not voting for you next election. I want someone that isn't just active, but will speak out.

AND.. about all the people saying they are busy doing what they came to school for. It's the week before finals. If you still have a lot of work to do, you didn't plan well in the earlier part of the semester. All of my projects are done, and all I have left to do is study an hour or so a day to be ready for exams.

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: drtdub
"Well, I'm one of those outside observers. Albeit one who has always been proud to have received my undergraduate education at USM. I've been following this story ever since it appeared in the Chronicle. I listened to the hearing and have spent way too much time reading the message boards. This board however is really disturbing to me. I can only imagine how difficult this entire issue is for you folks at USM. But the tone of these messages has deteriorated beyond reason. And arguments over the accomplishments (or not) of the SGA? Come on. Is that really the most important topic of conversation? In my experience faculty are usually disappointed with the complacent majortity of students (as they see it). And most students probably feel faculty spend too much time on issues that 'don't matter'. This is probably a universal paradox. May I appeal to you all to at the very least elevate your language and your thoughts? We all believe in dialogue. Let's make a case with substantive facts in a well reasoned manner. Let's lose the name calling of those with whom we are not in agreement. Very sincerely,"

It sounds like you may be jumping to conclusions about who is saying what. This is not a faculty message board. Many of the people who post here are students or alumni. Don't assume faculty are always the ones generating issues. If the students who post here are unhappy with SGA, they have every right to discuss this as something that matters to them.

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"I love how everyone says, "the students are not being represented," or "the students do not like Thames." Do you realize that the only college (with a very small number of exceptions) don't care about this one bit. Liberal Arts is the only voice that you hear through this entire matter. I myself am a Biology major. I have many friends in Business. We have discussed this many times, and we all come to the conclusion that our colleges like Dr. Thames and support him. We, being logically minded, realize that he was right in firing Glamser and Stringer. I am not a watchdog for Thames, I just realize the truth when I see it. If perhaps you liberal arts idiots were not so bred into causing controversy, then you would realize that when you have two teachers that try and tear a university apart, then it eventually will be torn. Granted, right now Southern Miss certainly isn't looking great...but this is not the first time in our history that this sort of thing has happened, and it won't be the last. You petty little people that critisize our SGA and our Administration need to get out and see the world as it really is, not as you see it from your own peer groups. Oh, and for those of you who do not attend USM, mind your own damn business. I'm sure you have plenty of problems yourself."

I am an MBA student who has a serious problem with this administration and with the SGA. It's not just liberal arts majors. It's all over this campus. It's in everyone's conversation. It's everywhere. Criticizing someone's opinion because they are one major or another is argumentation by intimidation and not true debate. I'm not petty, and this is not a petty gripe. This university has some serious issues right now that effect how we are educated. If you wish to address those issues, then fine. Please do. I support your right to have an opinion, but don't just dismiss someone else's opinion because they are in a major field that differs from yours.

Date: May 4, 2004

FYI, to the student biology major:

I sold a t-shirt to a biology prof. yesterday, so perhaps he doesn't think everything is just fine with Dr. Thames.