Fleming

Date: May 13, 2004

Fleming

Date: May 14, 2004

I wanted to bump this back up...Bogus Boy, can you shed some light (I think of you as our "board historian" since you've done such a good job of it in the past!). Can anyone provide links to stories of Fleming's demise or a short synopsis for out-of-towners?

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"I wanted to bump this back up...Bogus Boy, can you shed some light (I think of you as our "board historian" since you've done such a good job of it in the past!). Can anyone provide links to stories of Fleming's demise or a short synopsis for out-of-towners?"

I'll see what I can find that is "official." There are plenty of people around who can give the perspective of faculty or staff members, though. I have one quick paragraph from the Chronicle of Higher Ed that I can share, dated April 12, 2002:

"The Mississippi board is seeking a replacement for Horace W. Fleming, who quit last year after the trustees offered him a one-year probationary contract, rather than a full-fledged renewal, because they said they disapproved of his management style."

Date: May 14, 2004

Positive stuff about Fleming, regarding his USM days, from the MERCER site: http://www2.mercer.edu/News/Articles/020522fleming.htm . This may serve as a jumping off point for comments and counterpoints by others, possibly.

While he served as the institution's president, the University of Southern Mississippi's enrollment increased 13 percent, growing to 15,059 students. Freshman enrollment jumped by 15 percent with the freshman-to-sophomore retention rate increasing by 20 percent. He managed a university budget of $240 million and initiated the first, comprehensive University fund-raising campaign, raising $75 million of the $100 million goal two years ahead of schedule. He led the university to implement four new doctoral degree programs, seven new master's degree programs and eight new undergraduate degree programs while completing a university-wide comprehensive technology reorganization and upgrade, including wireless capabilities for all campuses and sites at half of the initially-projected cost.

He also led a $150 million building program, which was funded and 50 percent complete as of last fall. He also initiated a reorganization of tutorial and counseling services for student athletes, which resulted in increased grade-point averages and improved graduation rate of student athletes "on-time" to second overall among Conference USA institutions. The university also completed construction of a new athletic center, women's softball stadium, field house for baseball and stadiums for soccer and tennis, during his tenure.

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: BogusBoy
"Positive stuff about Fleming, regarding his USM days, from the MERCER site: http://www2.mercer.edu/News/Articles/020522fleming.htm . This may serve as a jumping off point for comments and counterpoints by others, possibly. While he served as the institution's president, the University of Southern Mississippi's enrollment increased 13 percent, growing to 15,059 students. Freshman enrollment jumped by 15 percent with the freshman-to-sophomore retention rate increasing by 20 percent. He managed a university budget of $240 million and initiated the first, comprehensive University fund-raising campaign, raising $75 million of the $100 million goal two years ahead of schedule. He led the university to implement four new doctoral degree programs, seven new master's degree programs and eight new undergraduate degree programs while completing a university-wide comprehensive technology reorganization and upgrade, including wireless capabilities for all campuses and sites at half of the initially-projected cost. He also led a $150 million building program, which was funded and 50 percent complete as of last fall. He also initiated a reorganization of tutorial and counseling services for student athletes, which resulted in increased grade-point averages and improved graduation rate of student athletes "on-time" to second overall among Conference USA institutions. The university also completed construction of a new athletic center, women's softball stadium, field house for baseball and stadiums for soccer and tennis, during his tenure."

BB, that 2nd paragraph must be about another job...if not, then where is the "soccer and tennis stadium" at USM?

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"BB, that 2nd paragraph must be about another job...if not, then where is the "soccer and tennis stadium" at USM?"

You think he might have "pumped up" the resume??

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"BB, that 2nd paragraph must be about another job...if not, then where is the "soccer and tennis stadium" at USM?"

I think it is down 4th Street

Date: May 14, 2004

I talked to a friend who attended during Fleming's administration and he said from what he remembers Fleming was more academic-orienated than sports-orienated. That explains why the athletic dept. didn't like him. Also, supposively the faculty tried to pass a vote of confidence with as well.

But then again my friend went through USM fat, drunk, and stupid.

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: rumor mill
"But then again my friend went through USM fat, drunk, and stupid."

Is your friend's first name (by any chance) "Shelby"?

Date: May 14, 2004

To make a long story short, Fleming didn't want to fund athletics to the end which was agreeded upon in a previous administration. Mainly, title nine had to be funded and the AD needed help financially. There was an agreement which Fleming tried to nix. Fleming got caught trying to update technology past the point where USM had the ability to pay. He tried to divert the AD's money to technology. He overspent, overcommitted and finally got caught up in it all in my opinion.

Date: May 14, 2004

One big difference between Fleming and Thames is the fact that Fleming REALLY tried to strengthen the Gulf Park campus, and felt very strongly that we needed a strong 4-year program down there. Some will say that this put him in a pitched battle against many people (legislators, IHL members) in Jackson (and at the other major universities) and helped hasten his departure.

I don't think anyone can say that Thames is out to strengthen the Gulf Park campus in any way.

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: BogusBoy
"I don't think anyone can say that Thames is out to strengthen the Gulf Park campus in any way."

Very good points, BogusBoy.

Turning back the clock to Fleming, recall that his determination to admit lower division students at Gulf Park pitched him into a lawsuit filed by Olon Ray & a number of "community college advocates." While the suit was eventually dismissed, it certainly resulted in a very strong anti-Fleming lobby developing, composed of community college presidents.

Anybody who thinks community college presidents are less powerful than university presidents knows little about Mississippi politics. For starters, community college presidents essentially get to choose their board members (working with county supervisors as their proxies). Board members who kick up too much dust are not reappointed. Simple as that.

So, Fleming goes out. Thames comes in. Almost immediately, a financial aid consortium was set up so that students who dual enrolled at USM-GC & MGCCC could receive Title IV aid more easily. This had been stonewalled by the Fleming administration. Thames scored big points with the community college folks by doing that.

But as time has gone on, USM has become backtracked. The failure of the USM administration to ratify the articulation agreement is a very BIG example of this. This is a thinly veiled attempt to "force" community college students to transfer earlier than the end of their sophomore year.

To hear Tim Hudson talk, this is because faculty and department chairs want "tougher" core curricula.

That said, Fleming's big problem was that a small number of wealthy folks who like to buy influence didn't like the way he was treating athletics.

Date: May 14, 2004

Dr. Fleming was the one that moved $600,000.00 out of the sports budget for academic advancements.

He wanted the university to grow academically!

Date: May 14, 2004

It is interesting to note that both Thames and Fleming had, as their right-hand men and trusted confidants, people who were REVILED by just about everyone (Fleming had John McGowan and Thames had Jack Hanbury). McGowan did have a select few friends on campus, but we can be sure that Hanbury had none. -- Is this a trend nationally with unpopular presidents?

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: BogusBoy
"It is interesting to note that both Thames and Fleming had, as their right-hand men and trusted confidants, people who were REVILED by just about everyone (Fleming had John McGowan and Thames had Jack Hanbury). McGowan did have a select few friends on campus, but we can be sure that Hanbury had none. -- Is this a trend nationally with unpopular presidents?"

BB, I will have to disagree with you here. It may be that folks you knew (and lots of faculty among them) reviled McGowan, but I know plenty of staff, at least, who really liked him. I remember that he was a friend to the Honors College, and other areas as well. Sure, he spent a lot of money on technology, but at least he was an INTELLIGENT man who didn't attack the faculty and the basic notions of tenure, etc. like Hanbury did. McGowan may have been misguided, but he was not in the same league as Hack Hanbury AT ALL!

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"BB, I will have to disagree with you here. It may be that folks you knew (and lots of faculty among them) reviled McGowan, but I know plenty of staff, at least, who really liked him. I remember that he was a friend to the Honors College, and other areas as well. Sure, he spent a lot of money on technology, but at least he was an INTELLIGENT man who didn't attack the faculty and the basic notions of tenure, etc. like Hanbury did. McGowan may have been misguided, but he was not in the same league as Hack Hanbury AT ALL!"

Re: McGowan, we obviously have different perspectives. Everyone in my circles, faculty and staff, couldn't stand the site of him because they were frequently disrespected by him. But, you are right, they are very different people and had different roles.

Date: May 14, 2004

The following website may help provide some background: http://www.mississippiwebsite.com/flemingstorm.htm

Date: May 14, 2004

I worked for John McGowan's wife, Sandy, and actually replaced her in Independent Study when she left. I have some issues about him, which are inappropriate to go into here, but she was one of the kindest and hardest-working people I every knew. I have heard negative comments about her, but she was wonderful to work for, and I never saw her take advantage of her position as his wife.

Date: May 14, 2004

Originally posted by: Curious
"The following website may help provide some background: http://www.mississippiwebsite.com/flemingstorm.htm

Man, that's some interesting reading. I wonder if Stephen McCaleb is available? Perhaps FS could recruit him for a similar campaign against Thames. I also wonder if he was ever paid his $7900.

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
"Originally posted by: Curious"The following website may help provide some background: http://www.mississippiwebsite.com/flemingstorm.htm Man, that's some interesting reading. I wonder if Stephen McCaleb is available? Perhaps FS could recruit him for a similar campaign against Thames. I also wonder if he was ever paid his $7900."

Oh, believe me, this guy hates Thames, too. He hates them all because they won't give him his money that he says he is owed. Someone else posted his pages about Thames awhile back.

Date: May 14, 2004

BTW, the wildlife rehabilitation facility was on the WLOX news last night. I only caught the tail end of it, but evidently the University is closing it & "using the property for other purposes."

Date: May 14, 2004

Can anyone give me the reason Fleming was canned by the IHL Board and the Athletic Supporters and Hattiesburg Business Boys were happy to see him go? I missed the details of that situation. Seems that is the root cause of many of our troubles.

____________________________________________________

You will not like what I have to say. But that is your right.

When Fleming was hired it was because the faculty overwhelmingly chose him after the interview process and the IHL Board decided to go with the faculty's sentiment. THe other two choices were walking disasters. The guy at Lamar went back th LU and was fired for incompetence. This is the guy the IHL Board really wanted to be the new president.

In fact, Carl Nicholson never forgave Horace for being the one that was picked instead of the guy from Lamar. To this day I think Carl N. wished that the incompetent one was chosen. But Carl never gave Horace a chance.

Now as to other reasons:

1. At the insistance of Shelby, Horace led the charge that got the IHL to grant the Polymer department certification as an engineering degree for the masters and doctorate degrees. Shelby later criticized Horace for not getting the BS degree certified as an engineering degree too. (NOTE: In two years under SFT, this has never come before the IHL Board. Gee Shelby, can you not fight for what you said Horace should have done? Why are you not doing what you complained that others should have accomplished?).

Porteria(sp?), MSU president tried everything to stop this. He sent his plane to 'fetch' Horace to Starkville and 'explain' what would happen if Horace proceeded to pursue an engineering classification for the polymer degrees. And he promised him a lot of things for USM if this would just go away. Horace said no, this was right for USM and he would take his chances with the IHL Board doing the right thing. Porteria even had Carl Nicholson not attend the meeting to vote when it was clear that USM would win by 1 vote. Carl called and tried to stop the vote as he 'could not make the meeting at the last minute.' The vote went on anyway (so we won by 2 votes). Porteria after the meeting told Horace that he would get him for doing this (getting the grad programs as engineering degrees).

2. Horace said that the Gulf Coast belonged to USM and we should be a dual campus university, with GP being granted 4 year status. The CC system sued USM to stop this in spite of Mike Moore's ruling in our favor. All of the funding for the cc lawsuit came from MSU grads, well...maybe some money came from 1 or 2 miss grads.This effort was led by Porteria. See last sentence in #1.

We won. But it cost a lot with the IHL because we did not roll over like AK Lucas would have done and accepted our screwing like we were supposed to! How dare we try to claim the Gulf Coast!

3. Horace showed the IHL Board that out of 8 universities we were being funded at the #7 position. And when cuts came, Horace said NO. The IHL Board did not like having a president at USM who stood up for the university. They liked the 22 years of AK when he was all too glad to get shafted by the IHL Board. (Remember the early 80's when the IHL Board took away about 8 to 10 programs from USM and gave them to MSU and OLD Miss? AK never said a word and tried to stop those USM supporters that filed FOIA suits to find out what happened. But that is another story).

4. The Faculty Senate discussed a vote of no confidence for Horace. Some were quite vocal about calling for his head. I think it had to do with going to a 2 week pay period instead of a twice monthly pay period for staff. In the long run, I think people like the 2 week cycle better. BUT...the cat was out of the bag. The media got ahold of it (I wonder how?) and the IHL jumped all over it. This was their chance! The rest is history.

So, the IHL gave Horace a slap in the face and a 1 year contract...so he said NO! once again. At his 2 year review the IHL Board had not automatically give him an extension, as is thier custom. And remember, the IHL kept putting off Horace's evaluations. They were waiting for something to happen that they could jump on. The Faculty Senate gave them the tools they needed! SFT will be forever grateful to the faculty for his opportunity!

As to McGowan...a unique individual. I believe that if he had left USM after 3 years, Horace might still be here. He managed to rub almost everyone the wrong way. But in his defense, he did get us up to speed in technology. When AK 'retired' for that four year period he left a university that had no audex and an impossible maze of red tape to get even a simple internet connection established in an office. But nothing was standardized.

AK left USM in a technology wasteland. He never understood technology and he had no interest in learning about it or in hiring someone who did. In short, part of the problem Horace interited was we were starting from scratch for technology, so it was expensive. And Horace realized we could never be what we claimed we wanted to be without up-to-date technology.

Now before you jump all over me, I think there were several people who could have done a good job implementing technology at USM and who probably could have done it a lot cheaper. But Horace had a history with John and he trusted him. Horace was no technology genius either. But he did allow John free reign to do what ever needed to be done. Overkill? Most likely. John never knew the definition of the word budget. But it did get done, like him or not.

Now, as to the Athletic Department. The AD had no stronger friend than Horace. But they did not recognize that because Bill Pace worked very hard to be a major thorn in athletic's side. Not that he wasn't a thorn in everyone else's side too. But the AD pulled their money out of the USM Foundation and created a duplicate bureaucracy. But the point where the AD and Horace split was over funding for athletic enhancements.

Time was running out for the bonds that could build part of the new field house. Mr. G wanted the USM Foundation to guarantee the financing. He wanted the Foundation to be responsible in case of default by the AD. It was explained to him numerous times that was an illegal action as the Foundation held money in trust for the university that could only be used as directed by the individual donors. That money could not in effect be 'pledged' to support the AD. To do so would be to revoke the rules implied in a 501(c)3 charitable organization.

Horace would not allow this action to take place with Foundation money. And that is where the AD had a parting of the ways with Dr. Fleming. So Richard vowed to remove all athletic support money from the USM Foundation and start his own foundation. Technically, it is a sub-set of the USM Foundation. But all of the 'endowed' money in that foundation is probably at risk as collateral to some AD construction projects. I did not keep up with the new group, so I do not know what they are doing with 'their' money. But I bet it is pledged to something as colleteral. Illegal? I do not know. Bad business planning? Most definitely. I am glad they have none of my money. But if I was on their board, I would insist on a very large insurance policy to cover the mistakes of their board...just in case some chickens come home to roost.

There is a litany of other things, but my fingers are tired and there is a graduation to celebrate.

Let us go enjoy the positives for our university this day. Congratulations to all the graduates. We are proud of your accomplishments!

Date: May 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"That said, Fleming's big problem was that a small number of wealthy folks who like to buy influence didn't like the way he was treating athletics."

Rumor has it that, upon hearing of SFT's selection, Dr. F replied, "The car dealers have their man."

Probably unrelated, but have you ever noticed how many automobile ads run in the sports section of the HBRG American?

Date: May 14, 2004

Thanks Outward Bound for the History Lesson.

Date: May 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Outward Bound
"Can anyone give me the reason Fleming was canned by the IHL Board and the Athletic Supporters and Hattiesburg Business Boys were happy to see him go? I missed the details of that situation. Seems that is the root cause of many of our troubles. ____________________________________________________ You will not like what I have to say. But that is your right. When Fleming was hired it was because the faculty overwhelmingly chose him after the interview process and the IHL Board decided to go with the faculty's sentiment. THe other two choices were walking disasters. The guy at Lamar went back th LU and was fired for incompetence. This is the guy the IHL Board really wanted to be the new president. In fact, Carl Nicholson never forgave Horace for being the one that was picked instead of the guy from Lamar. To this day I think Carl N. wished that the incompetent one was chosen. But Carl never gave Horace a chance. Now as to other reasons: 1. At the insistance of Shelby, Horace led the charge that got the IHL to grant the Polymer department certification as an engineering degree for the masters and doctorate degrees. Shelby later criticized Horace for not getting the BS degree certified as an engineering degree too. (NOTE: In two years under SFT, this has never come before the IHL Board. Gee Shelby, can you not fight for what you said Horace should have done? Why are you not doing what you complained that others should have accomplished?). Porteria(sp?), MSU president tried everything to stop this. He sent his plane to 'fetch' Horace to Starkville and 'explain' what would happen if Horace proceeded to pursue an engineering classification for the polymer degrees. And he promised him a lot of things for USM if this would just go away. Horace said no, this was right for USM and he would take his chances with the IHL Board doing the right thing. Porteria even had Carl Nicholson not attend the meeting to vote when it was clear that USM would win by 1 vote. Carl called and tried to stop the vote as he 'could not make the meeting at the last minute.' The vote went on anyway (so we won by 2 votes). Porteria after the meeting told Horace that he would get him for doing this (getting the grad programs as engineering degrees). 2. Horace said that the Gulf Coast belonged to USM and we should be a dual campus university, with GP being granted 4 year status. The CC system sued USM to stop this in spite of Mike Moore's ruling in our favor. All of the funding for the cc lawsuit came from MSU grads, well...maybe some money came from 1 or 2 miss grads.This effort was led by Porteria. See last sentence in #1. We won. But it cost a lot with the IHL because we did not roll over like AK Lucas would have done and accepted our screwing like we were supposed to! How dare we try to claim the Gulf Coast! 3. Horace showed the IHL Board that out of 8 universities we were being funded at the #7 position. And when cuts came, Horace said NO. The IHL Board did not like having a president at USM who stood up for the university. They liked the 22 years of AK when he was all too glad to get shafted by the IHL Board. (Remember the early 80's when the IHL Board took away about 8 to 10 programs from USM and gave them to MSU and OLD Miss? AK never said a word and tried to stop those USM supporters that filed FOIA suits to find out what happened. But that is another story). 4. The Faculty Senate discussed a vote of no confidence for Horace. Some were quite vocal about calling for his head. I think it had to do with going to a 2 week pay period instead of a twice monthly pay period for staff. In the long run, I think people like the 2 week cycle better. BUT...the cat was out of the bag. The media got ahold of it (I wonder how?) and the IHL jumped all over it. This was their chance! The rest is history. So, the IHL gave Horace a slap in the face and a 1 year contract...so he said NO! once again. At his 2 year review the IHL Board had not automatically give him an extension, as is thier custom. And remember, the IHL kept putting off Horace's evaluations. They were waiting for something to happen that they could jump on. The Faculty Senate gave them the tools they needed! SFT will be forever grateful to the faculty for his opportunity! As to McGowan...a unique individual. I believe that if he had left USM after 3 years, Horace might still be here. He managed to rub almost everyone the wrong way. But in his defense, he did get us up to speed in technology. When AK 'retired' for that four year period he left a university that had no audex and an impossible maze of red tape to get even a simple internet connection established in an office. But nothing was standardized. AK left USM in a technology wasteland. He never understood technology and he had no interest in learning about it or in hiring someone who did. In short, part of the problem Horace interited was we were starting from scratch for technology, so it was expensive. And Horace realized we could never be what we claimed we wanted to be without up-to-date technology. Now before you jump all over me, I think there were several people who could have done a good job implementing technology at USM and who probably could have done it a lot cheaper. But Horace had a history with John and he trusted him. Horace was no technology genius either. But he did allow John free reign to do what ever needed to be done. Overkill? Most likely. John never knew the definition of the word budget. But it did get done, like him or not. Now, as to the Athletic Department. The AD had no stronger friend than Horace. But they did not recognize that because Bill Pace worked very hard to be a major thorn in athletic's side. Not that he wasn't a thorn in everyone else's side too. But the AD pulled their money out of the USM Foundation and created a duplicate bureaucracy. But the point where the AD and Horace split was over funding for athletic enhancements. Time was running out for the bonds that could build part of the new field house. Mr. G wanted the USM Foundation to guarantee the financing. He wanted the Foundation to be responsible in case of default by the AD. It was explained to him numerous times that was an illegal action as the Foundation held money in trust for the university that could only be used as directed by the individual donors. That money could not in effect be 'pledged' to support the AD. To do so would be to revoke the rules implied in a 501(c)3 charitable organization. Horace would not allow this action to take place with Foundation money. And that is where the AD had a parting of the ways with Dr. Fleming. So Richard vowed to remove all athletic support money from the USM Foundation and start his own foundation. Technically, it is a sub-set of the USM Foundation. But all of the 'endowed' money in that foundation is probably at risk as collateral to some AD construction projects. I did not keep up with the new group, so I do not know what they are doing with 'their' money. But I bet it is pledged to something as colleteral. Illegal? I do not know. Bad business planning? Most definitely. I am glad they have none of my money. But if I was on their board, I would insist on a very large insurance policy to cover the mistakes of their board...just in case some chickens come home to roost. There is a litany of other things, but my fingers are tired and there is a graduation to celebrate. Let us go enjoy the positives for our university this day. Congratulations to all the graduates. We are proud of your accomplishments!"

note- the faculty didn't go out for fleming when his job was under fire. i remember seeing a handful of faculty there. i hope you all are happy with what it got you.

Date: May 16, 2004

Outward Bound hits on all cylinders

Date: May 17, 2004

RE: Fleming