why the silence?

Date: May 16, 2004

why the silence?

Date: May 16, 2004

There was allusion, possibly on this board, about Asian lab techs (or GA's ??) being forbidden to speak to one another in their own language at PS. Does anyone know if this is true?

I do have it from the horse's mouth that on the Coast, ST walked around at ten till five to make sure profs were in their offices. The prof who told me that story said he would leave a pair of glasses lying on a book, light on, and go home. TA would lock up. (He's retired.) Also on the Coast, profs were to sign in and out, although I think that one is common knowlege.

Date: May 16, 2004

My biker buddies are telling me that those perfessers are actually being too nice. Sometimes the only way to kill a bad snake is to skid to a halt, jump off the ride, and squash its head right there in the middle of the dang road. A big steel-toed boot's worth of squashing. It ain't pretty but it works. As much dirt as The Head Cracker has generated in his 40-odd years at USM, you'd think y'all would have a special post - Call it Dirty Laundry - and let it all hang out. Is it true that whenever SFT travels, he carries Dvorak with him, and they book only 1 hotel room together? Is it true that what's-her-name Cynthia Easterling Moore was known to have had an actual "affair" with SFT, and her career took off afterward? Is it true that SFT used to take up both of the Handicapped parking spots in front of PS, and that when one day a colleague called the campus police (from a pay phone) to come and ticket his fat-as* SUV, after getting the ticket SFT then called an emergency department meeting and offered anyone $500 to tell him who 'dun 'at? Is it true that SFT has a reputation for telling N**G*R jokes? Is it true that, during the governor's election last year, he once was drunk at the Purple Parrot and stood up and declaimed that he knew Barbour was going to win because Haley had "all the da*n JEWS for him"?

If he rode in our group we would just kick his a*s and be done with him. Y'all are just too dang nice and respectable and all like that.

Date: May 16, 2004

I've never heard any of those stories, and kinda doubt most of them, and anyway am in no mood to be sued for slander. We could make up stuff all night, but why bother? The known truth is bad enough.

(The Jews I know, some of 'em relatives, are all Democrats.)

Date: May 16, 2004

But if I ever heard him say dxmn Jew or any other anti-semitic remark, he would have one angry little WASP grandmama to deal with! I'm an honorary bubbe!

Date: May 16, 2004

Three posts in a row from me -- I must be the last one awake.

Beemer, it might be a good idea to refrain from anything which sounds like a physical threat. Better tp be a little too nice. You could cause trouble for all concerned.

Date: May 16, 2004

I think we should list (and number) every single Thames story we've ever heard. I think we should pepper the IHL with the smoke that surrounds this man. Where there's smoke--

Date: May 16, 2004

LVN,

The story that he tells about Asian students is one he tells with great pride. The time that I heard it was the last Tuesday with Thames meeting. If SFt reads this, he'll know this is FACT. It was during a diversity discussion (or exactly the lack of it at USM) when he told this story

"I had a quiet Chinese student that didn't cause me any trouble in class but didn't do the assignments, so I gave him an "F" at the end of the year. He begged me not to fail him and I found out the reason that he didn't perform well was that he didn't speak English. I told him that English is the language that must be spoken to get anywhere in this country. He went to the Language Lab, learned how to speak, and turned out to be one of my best students."

Now this might be the smallest of offenses for the Little Colonel, but I confirm that if asked, he'd tell you the story himself. I don't want to take the thread off-course but you needed to know that it's more than a rumor.

As far as the course that the postings lean toward, I wont insult the intelligence of the members by enumerating (i.e. "Let me count the Ways...) the effects of SFT's crippled mind. His actions with Dr. Harris at the onset of his Presidency elevated my awareness of how SFT viewed those not of his heritage. That's why I engaged in the struggle long before G&S. I prepared to fight so as not to be whipped behind the barn over a woodpile.

That's the Truth. 2pennies.

Date: May 16, 2004

Thanks, M.S. I just wondered if it were true. I'm a little concerned with posts that verge over into slander, and especially any that sound like actual threats. I don't know for sure, but it could cause trouble for FS and the board.

Well, we have talked on this board a great deal about the lack of diversity in the higher echelons at USM. As I said elsewhere, if there were true, fair, national searches for these positions, there would be more diversity. There would be blacks, there would be OLD, mean women with gray hair and good sense, there would be all sorts of people. At this point, though, can you think of a reason anyone worth their salt would come here, except as President to do their own "cleaning"? I'm a conservative Republican, but some of these guys give me the shudders (Billy Hewitt comes to mind.)

Date: May 17, 2004

Marley's Son,

What did SFT do to Dr. Harris?

This is a bit of history I'm not caught up on.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 17, 2004

Dr. Campbell-

I know what happened to Dr. Harris. I was there. Give me a call. I'm listed in Jackson, MS.

Jim Hollandsworth

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Marley's Son
"
"I had a quiet Chinese student that didn't cause me any trouble in class but didn't do the assignments, so I gave him an "F" at the end of the year. He begged me not to fail him and I found out the reason that he didn't perform well was that he didn't speak English. I told him that English is the language that must be spoken to get anywhere in this country. He went to the Language Lab, learned how to speak, and turned out to be one of my best students."
"

I'm not sure why this is being brought up as a supposedly anti-Thames thing. A student who doesn't speak the language of instruction has a problem & should be assisted. It isn't a race thing here; it's the failure to intervene early on when a student isn't performing.

What Marley's Son should have asked is how come it took Thames until "the end of the year" to ask the student why he wasn't doing the assignments. "Quiet" students are often, in my experience, the ones that the prof has to seek out & ask.

Now, I'm gonna hold up a big ugly mirror to everyone on this board who teaches (including myself). When you have a "quiet" student in your class who is not doing assignments, do you "intervene," or do you wait "until the end of the year" when the student comes to beg off on an "F?"

Date: May 17, 2004

And at what point in their life should students begin to accept responsibility for themselves?!?!

quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus
" I'm not sure why this is being brought up as a supposedly anti-Thames thing. A student who doesn't speak the language of instruction has a problem & should be assisted. It isn't a race thing here; it's the failure to intervene early on when a student isn't performing. What Marley's Son should have asked is how come it took Thames until "the end of the year" to ask the student why he wasn't doing the assignments. "Quiet" students are often, in my experience, the ones that the prof has to seek out & ask. Now, I'm gonna hold up a big ugly mirror to everyone on this board who teaches (including myself). When you have a "quiet" student in your class who is not doing assignments, do you "intervene," or do you wait "until the end of the year" when the student comes to beg off on an "F?""

Date: May 17, 2004

No professor worth his/her salt waits until the end of a term or year to give one make-or-break grade. I find out no later than 4-6 weeks into a term what my students are doing or are capable of doing. Nobody should come to the end of a semester and be surprised. The question here is also whether there were white students in Shelby's classes that got better treatment.

quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus
" I'm not sure why this is being brought up as a supposedly anti-Thames thing. A student who doesn't speak the language of instruction has a problem & should be assisted. It isn't a race thing here; it's the failure to intervene early on when a student isn't performing. What Marley's Son should have asked is how come it took Thames until "the end of the year" to ask the student why he wasn't doing the assignments. "Quiet" students are often, in my experience, the ones that the prof has to seek out & ask. Now, I'm gonna hold up a big ugly mirror to everyone on this board who teaches (including myself). When you have a "quiet" student in your class who is not doing assignments, do you "intervene," or do you wait "until the end of the year" when the student comes to beg off on an "F?""

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Outside observer
"And at what point in their life should students begin to accept responsibility for themselves?!?! "

I'm glad you brough this up. It's the #1 cop-out that some college professors use to avoid having to teach rather than just shovel out large quantities of information to be regurgitated later on.

Teaching != Shoveling Out Info

Most students need to be reminded that they must accept responsibility for themselves. They aren't going to pick that up by osmosis.

So, is it better to make a student aware that they need to accept responsibility early on, or is it better to wait until the end of the year when they've "earned" that "F"?

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"

I'm glad you brough this up. It's the #1 cop-out that some college professors use to avoid having to teach rather than just shovel out large quantities of information to be regurgitated later on.

Teaching != Shoveling Out Info

Most students need to be reminded that they must accept responsibility for themselves. They aren't going to pick that up by osmosis.

So, is it better to make a student aware that they need to accept responsibility early on, or is it better to wait until the end of the year when they've "earned" that "F"?

"

I had a student who couldn't do anything. (My field requires math). During a conversation with him I discovered he only went to 3 months of high school and dropped out. Six years later he decided he did need an education after all and worked to get a GED. He got into and through a community college (CC). He entered USM and was in my class without any preparation for a university education. He could not do algebra, had no high school English, history etc. but passed through the CC. He dropped my course and I never heard about him again. Who, now I wonder, am teaching in my courses. Am I too tough or do we really have people who should never be in a university now attending? Don't forget out goal of 20,000 students was announced even as the ACT scores were falling.

Date: May 17, 2004

yes, I agree..the rules should be explained from the outset..expectations made clear...but students who choose to not read the syllabus, or who ignore stated policies, should be held accountable...this is also part of the learning process.

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" I'm glad you brough this up. It's the #1 cop-out that some college professors use to avoid having to teach rather than just shovel out large quantities of information to be regurgitated later on. Teaching != Shoveling Out Info Most students need to be reminded that they must accept responsibility for themselves. They aren't going to pick that up by osmosis. So, is it better to make a student aware that they need to accept responsibility early on, or is it better to wait until the end of the year when they've "earned" that "F"? "

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"I've never heard any of those stories, and kinda doubt most of them, and anyway am in no mood to be sued for slander. We could make up stuff all night, but why bother? The known truth is bad enough. (The Jews I know, some of 'em relatives, are all Democrats.)"

Date: May 17, 2004

Posting my reply out of context is very misleading. I was responding to the purported very ugly, anti-semitic remark attributed to SFT. Also, I originally asked if it were true that Asian lab techs were punished for speaking their native language to one another at PS.

Date: May 17, 2004

LVN,

Thank you for putting MY remarks into context. It's amazing that my having graduated less that 100 hours ago from USM apparently renders me unable to ask questions or answer them on the FSBB. I asked Shelby a specific question about diversity and he gave me the anecdote about the Asian student. If anything, his ability to lump ALL non-white at USM students into a homily about "American toughness" renders his theories about other non-racist pedagogy moot.

I have a degree in Secondary Ed as well as the advanced degrees from two southern universities, and I've taught at the high school, community college, and college level. In my remarks to SFT, I wasn't really trying to do comparative analysis on how Shelby treats his white students. Hell, I see how he treats his WHITE professors!

If he doesn't give a damn about his faculty, what should impress me that he "really cares about kids"? Trust me, from my conversations with the man, and the insights from the FS board about underlying issues of misogny and class bigotry, I'd be the last person to EVEN endorse his returning to the classroom, which should have been the way that my remarks to LVN were understood instead of a rallying cry for Lott/Barbour/Bush supporters to "tell us" what we should be thinking or asking.

There are several well-honed minds on this board, which is why I come to this community to share my observations, but my late parents (neither who went to college) produced children whose passion is education and hard work. So save your crafted bootstraps speech for the next homeless person you let stay a few nights at your home.

MS

Date: May 17, 2004

I posted this to another thread, but think it might be more appropriate here:

I would like for Gene Saucier to tell us the details of why Shelbo was demoted in 1986 from Executive VP to Polymer Science title?? Would also like some enterprising soul to go the Hattiesburg Public Library and find the HA article about what happened. I was here and know what happened as rumored. The rumors I heard at the time involved the Director of Recruitment, not his secretary! She was immediately gone from the scene at USM.

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"I'm a conservative Republican, but some of these guys give me the shudders (Billy Hewitt comes to mind.) "

Billy HEWES, not Hewitt! LVN, I know that this was just a slip of your fingers when typing, but I want to make sure that no one starts a rumor that I'm related to that racist, homophobic little man!

He gives me the shudders, too. Contrary to popular belief, you CAN be a conservative Republican AND promote diversity and equality among all regardless of race, gender, creed, religion, affectional orientation, physical ability, etc. You're one of them, LVN! (and I'm proud to say I know you!).

Date: May 17, 2004

LVN,

Of course, it was a generic YOU and not to you specifically for whom I wrote my response. I guess sometimes you have to walk into a neighbor's yard so that they understand what you think and this is no different from most communities. In fact, such hypersensitivity and insensibility in having cogent conversations about race make this EXACTLY as most communities I've joined.

Dr. Hollandsworth, I think the board could benefit for your recollection of events surrounding Dr. Harris. I know of it because after SFT gave me the "open door" speech in his office, I walked to Dr, Harris office and we had a closed door conversation. He told me the effects but not the cause. Your insight would be valued.

PTTP

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Bob
"

I had a student who couldn't do anything. (My field requires math). During a conversation with him I discovered he only went to 3 months of high school and dropped out. Six years later he decided he did need an education after all and worked to get a GED. He got into and through a community college (CC). He entered USM and was in my class without any preparation for a university education. He could not do algebra, had no high school English, history etc. but passed through the CC. He dropped my course and I never heard about him again. Who, now I wonder, am teaching in my courses. Am I too tough or do we really have people who should never be in a university now attending? Don't forget out goal of 20,000 students was announced even as the ACT scores were falling.
"

Bob, you get my vote here for being a "good teacher. You actually took the time to find out a little about this student, and the student dropped the class before you had to award a failing grade.

USM is taking steps right now that will probably continue to erode the quality of the CC transfers it recruits.

Here's why: Many CC students have to take developmental math, English & reading classes before they can take "college level" courses. Unfortunately, there is no common standard for placement into developmental classes. Some CCs use ACT subscores, some use ASSET scores, some use h.s. transcripts, some use a combination of all of the above. Some CCs are very strict about it. Others are lenient. And students do everything possible to avoid taking those classes, including simply not taking math, English or other courses that are prohibited for "developmental students."

Now, once the student is admitted into a CC (open admissions) & takes a few classes, the student can transfer to USM, doing an end run around any regular admissions standards.

With USM reneging on the articulation agreement, it is essentially encouraging students to transfer before they complete their associate of arts degree. This opens the door for students who have evaded developmental courses to pop up at the university wholly unprepared for college level work. The only assurance you have that a CC transfer has any college level math or English skills is to require an associate's degree or do a thorough transcript audit. (Of course, plenty of CC transfers would have been legitimately admissible to USM as freshmen. I am not talking about these students.)

But if the goal is 20K students regardless, who cares anyway if they drop or flunk out of school once their tuition check has cleared the bank?

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Romeo
"I think we should list (and number) every single Thames story we've ever heard. I think we should pepper the IHL with the smoke that surrounds this man. Where there's smoke--"

People been asking for proof. If the truth is out there, it can be discovered.

Someone with more gumption than good sense goes into a public forum (distribute flyers around campus) and says, "My name is ___________ and I accuse Dr. Shelby Thames of a meritricious relationship with subordinates and other bad stuff, for example: ________________. Dr. Thames, you can now (1) sue me for liable or (2) do nothing. If you do nothing, everybody will assume the truth of my statement.

If you sue, you should do so knowing that the truth is an absolute defense. I may not have hard evidence now, but once you sue me, I will have the power to subpoena the young lady who was involved as well as her family. I
will subpoena Dr. Lucas and everybody in his office. I will subpoena personnel records that mysteriously seem to be unavailable now. I will subpoena your wife.

Dr. Thames, fish, or cut bait. Your choice."

A lot of dirty laundry might get aired, but I doubt it would make any difference. This is not Clinton/Lewinsky we're talking about. This is different; this is one of "ours."

Date: May 17, 2004

Thought this might be an interesting article for those who'd like to know more about the Ayers case and Mississippi higher education history:

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/news/stories/20040517/localnews/441015.html

Date: May 17, 2004

Truth,

I had the pleasure of knowing your as a colleague, and no one should doubt your resolve or passion for fairness in higher education. Regardless is it's race, gender or class issues, you've always put yourself out there, even before the bandwagon effect.

I am always more deeply enriched by your post, and the Ayers case is an emblem for what is wrong in many Southern universities. It isn't self-segregation that Black students seek at HCBU's any more that International students choose to retain their cultural inheritance at USM.

What all students want is equal access and fairness in the quality of instruction. "Awareness" is a slippery slope, so I don't delude myself that certain professors give lip service to multiculturalism in the classroom but practice apartheid in their communities. It's America and that's a personal choice, but under the auspices of a state college, it's bigoted, shallow minded, and illegal.

MS

Date: May 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Marley's Son
"Truth, I had the pleasure of knowing your as a colleague, and no one should doubt your resolve or passion for fairness in higher education. Regardless is it's race, gender or class issues, you've always put yourself out there, even before the bandwagon effect. I am always more deeply enriched by your post, and the Ayers case is an emblem for what is wrong in many Southern universities. It isn't self-segregation that Black students seek at HCBU's any more that International students choose to retain their cultural inheritance at USM. What all students want is equal access and fairness in the quality of instruction. "Awareness" is a slippery slope, so I don't delude myself that certain professors give lip service to multiculturalism in the classroom but practice apartheid in their communities. It's America and that's a personal choice, but under the auspices of a state college, it's bigoted, shallow minded, and illegal. MS"

Thanks so much for your kind compliments. I'll continue to fight for equality for all until the day I die and will teach my children to do the same. Equal access to a quality education is one of my big issues. "Separate but equal" just doesn't cut it (never did and never will)....the people of Mississippi deserve better!