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Fire Shelby Thames -> Fire Shelby Thames -> Fire Shelby Thames -> Let's look at the facts
Post Info TOPIC: Let's look at the facts
Eagle525

Date:
Let's look at the facts
Permalink Closed

We don't know all the facts behind the two professors, but if they broke policy and termination is the result of breaking policy, no matter how small you or I think it is the University should stick to policy. If they are found that they did not then they should be reinstated. But who are we to protest when we don't have all the facts, I think if the two professors in question had done nothing wrong they would want an open hearing so all could see how Thames is just trying to run them off, but with the closed hearings, leaves a lot of questions.


As for the new basketball coach, he made a mistake, he admitted that he made a mistake,  he took his punishment and resigned. He has said that he learned from his mistake and has changed. I think we should give him another chance.


Now the professors in question seem to think they have not done anything wrong and if they are found to have done something wrong then they should be punished also. And I would hope that some other University would give them a chance too.



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aghast

Date:
Permalink Closed

If we're going to play logical guessing games as to people's motivations, we could also say "If Thames had any real evidence against the two professors, he would have had no reason to by-pass the proper procedures in terminating them.  The provost and the deans would have agreed to fire people for legitimate reasons."  Or "If Thames and Dvorak didn't have anything to hide, there'd be no reason to fire people for asking questions about them."


If you want to stick to the fact, do so by all means.  But don't toss around supposition and call it fact.


 



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Eagle525

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Permalink Closed

YOu misread my post, I wasn't taking either sides, I was just saying lets get all the facts.

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concerned

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Permalink Closed

No eaglefan.. he read your motive..your propaganda is showing.

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fire shelby (moderator)

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle525
"YOu misread my post, I wasn't taking either sides, I was just saying lets get all the facts."

Fact: Using university police to bar two well respected professors from their offices while IT confiscates their computers and maintenance men change the locks on their door is abhorable, I don't care from which position you look at it.


Fact: Using university police to physically remove students from a basketball game because they had signs that were critical of Thames is equivalent  to gestapo tactics.


Fact: Demanding public hearings when state law and university protocol call for closed hearings for the professors is a PR stunt to make the professors look like they have something to hide, when both have promised that they have done nothing illegal.


Fact: It's ok to fire two professors and demand they allow a public hearing of a private personnel matter; all the while, your gal friday, Angie Dvorak, threatens to sue anyone who dare asks to see her resume'.


Fact: There are numerous pending lawsuits against Thames for illegally and unethically terminating faculty that he perceived a threat.


Fact: Jack Hanbury, USM's risk lawyer, isn't even ethical or talented enough to represent Shelby in the termination proceedings being brought against Glamser and STringer.


Fact: Nepotism is giving your daughter the largest pay raise in this year's pay raise package, while ignoring the fact that much more talented people were capable of leading the department.


Fact: Jim Keith, the lawyer appointed by the AG to ensure fairness in the termination precedings, works for a lawfirm that is currently representing shelby and co in other litigation.


Fact: Glamser and STringer are two of the most ethical, morally upright men in the university. But Thames likes weak people he can push around, like the Dean of Arts and Letters, who hid out in his office the day USM entered into the present crisis.


Fact: Some of us have knowledge that we are not privy to share on this message board.  But mark my words, Glamser and Stringer will keep their jobs and Shelby will lose his this summer.  He threw a temper tantrum and never expected the backlash he is now experiencing.  He continues to up the ante in this high-stakes game hoping that his opponents will falter.  They WILL NOT.


 



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Laughing

Date:
Permalink Closed

Laughing out loud at the "Poodism".

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fire shelby

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Laughing
"Laughing out loud at the "Poodism"."

Glad you enjoyed it.  When hell broke loose in front of students, what did he do? Hide in his office.  Oh, and add to the above:


 


Fact: Neither the Dean of Arts and Letters nor the University Provost were informed that Thames planned to fire Glamser and Stringer.  So much for protocol and following rules.


Oh, and another FACT: Thames stood in a televised press conference and LIED about a professor--said he locked students out of his class and gave them extra credit to attend the protest.  Sad for Thames, the professor, Dr. Doug Chambers, happened to be standing in the back of the crowd.  He shouted, "That's a damn lie," to which Shelby responded by asking his other gal friday, Mader, "Where did you get this info?" to which she replied, "Uh, from a student."  There's your upright, forthright, moral, ethical president Shelby Thames for ya. 



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Laughing

Date:
Permalink Closed

Yeah.. and a dean that I know of said he would step down if necessary to protest this action agains professors in his college.

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Catfish

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: fire shelby (moderator)
" Fact: Using university police to bar two well respected professors from their offices while IT confiscates their computers and maintenance men change the locks on their door is abhorable, I don't care from which position you look at it. Fact: Using university police to physically remove students from a basketball game because they had signs that were critical of Thames is equivalent  to gestapo tactics. Fact: Demanding public hearings when state law and university protocol call for closed hearings for the professors is a PR stunt to make the professors look like they have something to hide, when both have promised that they have done nothing illegal. Fact: It's ok to fire two professors and demand they allow a public hearing of a private personnel matter; all the while, your gal friday, Angie Dvorak, threatens to sue anyone who dare asks to see her resume'. Fact: There are numerous pending lawsuits against Thames for illegally and unethically terminating faculty that he perceived a threat. Fact: Jack Hanbury, USM's risk lawyer, isn't even ethical or talented enough to represent Shelby in the termination proceedings being brought against Glamser and STringer. Fact: Nepotism is giving your daughter the largest pay raise in this year's pay raise package, while ignoring the fact that much more talented people were capable of leading the department. Fact: Jim Keith, the lawyer appointed by the AG to ensure fairness in the termination precedings, works for a lawfirm that is currently representing shelby and co in other litigation. Fact: Glamser and STringer are two of the most ethical, morally upright men in the university. But Thames likes weak people he can push around, like the Dean of Arts and Letters, who hid out in his office the day USM entered into the present crisis. Fact: Some of us have knowledge that we are not privy to share on this message board.  But mark my words, Glamser and Stringer will keep their jobs and Shelby will lose his this summer.  He threw a temper tantrum and never expected the backlash he is now experiencing.  He continues to up the ante in this high-stakes game hoping that his opponents will falter.  They WILL NOT.  "

Sorry - but those are not facts.  A fact would be that University Police removed protesters from a basketball game.  Calling that a "gestapo tactic" is your interpretation of the event.  Just as your descriptions of events as "adhorable" and your judgement of certain people's ethics, motivations, or morals, are not facts, but rather personal opinions and interpretations.


The same goes for the rest of your so-called facts. 

I'm sure you are a reasonable and educated individual.  Surely you can tell the difference between what you just wrote, and a listing of factual statements.



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Educated Eddy

Date:
You're crazy Eagle525
Permalink Closed

Why would we wait for the facts!????  We already know Thames is a power hungry animal that's out to fire every professor he can.  We know that some students were escorted out of a game because they were protesting (granted there are rules against protests at basketball games), but who cares!!!  If your not FOR the cause then you're against it!!!!


I say let the professors make all the calls they want to on USM phones in order to spread the "good news" that Thames is here to destroy the world!!!  I say let the professors start their own paper soley for bashing Shelby Thames.


You just don't understand Eagle525......it doesn't matter if Thames is right or wrong!  All that matters is that the professors are above the good of the university!  And until you understand that you are on the "dark side".


 



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fire shelby

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Educated Eddy
"Why would we wait for the facts!????  We already know Thames is a power hungry animal that's out to fire every professor he can.  We know that some students were escorted out of a game because they were protesting (granted there are rules against protests at basketball games), but who cares!!!  If your not FOR the cause then you're against it!!!! I say let the professors make all the calls they want to on USM phones in order to spread the "good news" that Thames is here to destroy the world!!!  I say let the professors start their own paper soley for bashing Shelby Thames. You just don't understand Eagle525......it doesn't matter if Thames is right or wrong!  All that matters is that the professors are above the good of the university!  And until you understand that you are on the "dark side".  "

What I find fricking hilarious is that you are attempting to paint Czar Shelby as the victim.  Poor Shelby.  Poor poor man. :rolleyes:



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Missi

Date:
RE: Let's look at the facts
Permalink Closed

Eagle,


I think there is one fact that we can agree on. Citing the overwhelming "no conifidence" vote from the faculty, and citing the fact that on more than one occasion Thames has refused an outside mediator,as suggested/requested by the faculty, I would say everyone can agree there is a major communication rift between Thames and the faculty. That is extremely detrimental to a university. That, in turn, affects morale, which I would guess, in turn, affects the quality of lecture/energy/motivation/research production (etc.) of the faculty. Now.... I would also suppose that would affect the quality of education that is received by the students. As an administrator, you should want COOPERATION NOT COMPLIANCE. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE.  It is essential as an adminstrator to value your employees and let them know they are valued. Give them some ownership. Actions speak louder than words. CO-operation is the key, NOT COMPLIANCE.


Eagle525, I can respect that you are digging for facts, but surely you can see that fact no matter what side of the firing issue you are on... or even if you are on the fence!



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Educated Eddy

Date:
Permalink Closed

That's right!!!  Shelby is NO victim!  He's like "evil incarnate".  He suspended two professors because of questionable ethics (and we all know that really means they got fired for telling "the TRUTH").  How dare he suspend them (with pay) and force them to sit at home a collect a check until all the facts come out through a fair hearing.  Down with the dictator!!!!  We need Jesse Jackson to come fix this for us!!!!!

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Disinterested Third Party

Date:
Permalink Closed

Well said Missi!!

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Disgusted

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Except, I'm not so sure about Jesse Jackson!! 

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Educated Eddy

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Heck yea....Jesse Jackson!!! He's the only sign of anything just and fair in this world. He'd support our Profs cause!

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me

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Hey Eddy, get a life and your own board please.

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