I'm Queen Elizabeth II, and I support Shelby!

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

I'm Queen Elizabeth II, and I support Shelby!

Date: May 2, 2004

It's obvious that, no matter what program Jason is in, he is making a huge mistake if he thinks supporting Thames will help him vis-a-vis USM nursing!!

Date: May 2, 2004

Must be getting awfully hard to find anyone to interview for Shelby's side these days.

Date: May 2, 2004

why would one come to USM for a Nursing degree when the program is going down the tubes? (No insult intended to those in the program) Mr. Smith, you may consider asking Dr. Thames what happened to the building that was supposed to be the new Nursing Bldg.

Date: May 4, 2004

Just for the record, I'm an honors college student here at USM, and I have supported Thames through this entire situation and continue to support him now. I'm not about to even start up on any one of the million things wrong with this website or what everyone is saying on it.

All I will say is this. Shelby Thames is a great Southern Miss patron. He wants to do nothing more than better the university. Granted, I think his timing on this one particular matter was very bad, but I do think that he did what was in the better interest at USM for years to come.

If you want to pick a fight, don't fight your own school, fight to get us some more money so we can give teachers a raise. I would support raising tuition a few thousand dollars to help teachers out, but I don't think the majority of my peers would agree. Try legislating some (as I have) and push for some good news down here, not recycling the bad.

Date: May 4, 2004

The problem is Thames is running off all of the talented faculty...regardless of what he thinks are good decisions for the school, the result is the same. If you're in the HC, obviously you know the importance of good faculty.

Date: May 4, 2004

the problem with your reply is that it implies any faculty staying aren't of high quality. i've heard it for years--"only the good leave." i must not be for s**t, been here over 20 years.

Date: May 4, 2004

Sorry, that's not what I meant...There are still lots of talented faculty around, and I could list all the ones from my previous departments...

But, many have left, many more are considering it, and attracting new ones of equal caliber in this atmosphere is very difficult...

Date: May 4, 2004

PATRON

Among this word's synonyms are

booster, encourager, fairy godmother, financer, grubstaker, guarantor, guide, head, helper, lady bountiful, live one, partisan, pigeon, sugar daddy,

Many of the above are questionable, even if in some sort of weird way --they fit.

Date: May 4, 2004

more importantly, how do we "good" faculty manage ourselves in this environment. i don't have a lot of problems about what to do. others do.

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"Just for the record, I'm an honors college student here at USM, and I have supported Thames through this entire situation and continue to support him now. I'm not about to even start up on any one of the million things wrong with this website or what everyone is saying on it. All I will say is this. Shelby Thames is a great Southern Miss patron. He wants to do nothing more than better the university. Granted, I think his timing on this one particular matter was very bad, but I do think that he did what was in the better interest at USM for years to come. If you want to pick a fight, don't fight your own school, fight to get us some more money so we can give teachers a raise. I would support raising tuition a few thousand dollars to help teachers out, but I don't think the majority of my peers would agree. Try legislating some (as I have) and push for some good news down here, not recycling the bad."

As the former coordinator for General Honors, I have to say that reading your posts make me pine for the good old days of the HC. Do you support email surveillance for students? Do you support a president who publicly slanders students? If you support SFT, then this is what you support. Sad, sad, sad.

Date: May 4, 2004

well said...I was there in the good ole days also, which was just like a few years ago!

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"As the former coordinator for General Honors, I have to say that reading your posts make me pine for the good old days of the HC. Do you support email surveillance for students? Do you support a president who publicly slanders students? If you support SFT, then this is what you support. Sad, sad, sad."

Ditto. Honors College, of which I am a graudate, now is only a diluted form of what it was six or seven years ago. What idiotbomber doesn't realize is that being an Honors College student now is no great distinction. The college won't have colloquium or forum. It's mediocre at best.

Date: May 4, 2004

tell that to Ken Panton! i am shocked at the "dissing" of the honors college!

Date: May 4, 2004

Iddad:

This gets back to an argument you were having with the LSU grad student earlier. I got a peek today at a comprehensive report being put together by an accreditation committee. It shows 3 things: 1. The number of students that USM has admitted in Shelby Thames' first two years as president that had less than a 15 on the ACT is the same as the number admitted with less than a 15 ACT in the 7 admitted classes before Thames took over as president; 2. the number of students entering USM with greater than a 30 on the ACT in the Fall of 2003 is exactly the same as the number of students that came to USM in the Fall of 1997 with greater than 30 ACT scores; 3. the average ACT of incoming freshman has decreased almost 12% since SFT took over as president.

These data support the argument that the LSU grad student was making (lower admissions standards) and not the argument you were making (Ole Miss was stealing the high scoring students from us).

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: idiotbomber
"Just for the record, I'm an honors college student here at USM, and I have supported Thames through this entire situation and continue to support him now. I'm not about to even start up on any one of the million things wrong with this website or what everyone is saying on it. All I will say is this. Shelby Thames is a great Southern Miss patron. He wants to do nothing more than better the university. . . but I do think that he did what was in the better interest at USM for years to come. If you want to pick a fight, don't fight your own school, fight to get us some more money so we can give teachers a raise. I would support raising tuition a few thousand dollars to help teachers out, but I don't think the majority of my peers would agree. Try legislating some (as I have) and push for some good news down here, not recycling the bad."

idiotbomber--

I'm not going to attack your credentials. You're in the HC; good for you.

I do hope you will defend your premises. How is ST a "great patron?" I am aware of investments, financial and intellectual, that he has made that have paid off handsomely for him and his cronies.

He may or may not want nothing but to "better the university." None of us can open his head to view his intentions, can we? What exactly do you think he did that will better the university? Monitor e-mails? Lock out faculty with insufficient evidence? Discuss the case publicly, all the while complaining that his faculty lacked the masculine equipment to do the same, claiming that he had "facts" that he failed to ever disclose when the time came?

If you are not going to discuss the "million things" (hyperbole?) why refer to them? Come on, dive in. Engage.

You are right to talk up the positives. They are just getting harder and harder for the rest of us to find.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: lddad
"tell that to Ken Panton! i am shocked at the "dissing" of the honors college! "

I am not saying that it is the Honors College's fault. They take orders like the rest of us.

If there is no more colloquium, no more forum, then tell me what exactly is distinct about the college today.

Date: May 4, 2004

Idiotbomber, I have resisted replying to your previous postings because I wasn't sure that doing so would be productive. However, since you are obviously a sincere person who really does seem to love USM, let me pose a couple of questions; I hope you will give them some serious consideration.

Since the heart of a university truly is its faculty (without whom there would be no reason for students to come to Hattiesburg), and since the faculty has voted by an astonishingly overwhelming majority that it lacks confidence in the presidency of SFT, and since SFT has done nothing in the past two months to restore such confidence but has in fact undermined it even further, would you at least concede, as even the head of the EagleTalk forum has done, that the presidency of SFT is no longer effective and can no longer be effective? Would you at least be willing to admit that much?

Date: May 4, 2004

tomcat--i'm tired. i don't think your data really refute my position. my cursory look suggests it supports my position. but let me wake up tomorrow and look at your numbers. i'm glad such data is being generated however.

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: lddad
"tomcat--i'm tired. i don't think your data really refute my position. my cursory look suggests it supports my position. but let me wake up tomorrow and look at your numbers. i'm glad such data is being generated however."

Supports your position? Whatever. I'm done.

Date: May 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: tomcat
"Iddad: This gets back to an argument you were having with the LSU grad student earlier. I got a peek today at a comprehensive report being put together by an accreditation committee. It shows 3 things: 1. The number of students that USM has admitted in Shelby Thames' first two years as president that had less than a 15 on the ACT is the same as the number admitted with less than a 15 ACT in the 7 admitted classes before Thames took over as president; 2. the number of students entering USM with greater than a 30 on the ACT in the Fall of 2003 is exactly the same as the number of students that came to USM in the Fall of 1997 with greater than 30 ACT scores; 3. the average ACT of incoming freshman has decreased almost 12% since SFT took over as president. These data support the argument that the LSU grad student was making (lower admissions standards) and not the argument you were making (Ole Miss was stealing the high scoring students from us). "

FS Readers:

In the first point above, I meant to say that the number with less that 15's in SFT first two classes COMBINED equaled the number with less than 15's in the 7 classes COMBINED before his first two. Amazing.

thanks.

Date: May 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: tomcat
"Iddad: This gets back to an argument you were having with the LSU grad student earlier. I got a peek today at a comprehensive report being put together by an accreditation committee. It shows 3 things: 1. The number of students that USM has admitted in Shelby Thames' first two years as president that had less than a 15 on the ACT is the same as the number admitted with less than a 15 ACT in the 7 admitted classes before Thames took over as president; 2. the number of students entering USM with greater than a 30 on the ACT in the Fall of 2003 is exactly the same as the number of students that came to USM in the Fall of 1997 with greater than 30 ACT scores; 3. the average ACT of incoming freshman has decreased almost 12% since SFT took over as president. These data support the argument that the LSU grad student was making (lower admissions standards) and not the argument you were making (Ole Miss was stealing the high scoring students from us). "

Forgive my lack of statistical savvy here, but isn't this simply saying that our freshman acceptances are virtually the same but the students who choose to come are of lower academic quality (as measured by ACT scores)?

If so, this is huge! What a measure of diminishing reputation.

Date: May 5, 2004

RE: RE: RE: I'm Queen Elizabeth II, and I support

Date: May 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Flash Gordon
" It's actually much worse. The total number of new freshman in 2003 was down 16%. The number of low scoring students is up according to this report. That means the mix is changing. A different type of student is choosing USM. "

Yes thank you, after I posted I read one of the corrections and understood. Is this true across colleges?

Date: May 5, 2004

RE: I'm Queen Elizabeth II, and I support Shelby!

Date: May 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by:
" I am not saying that it is the Honors College's fault. They take orders like the rest of us. If there is no more colloquium, no more forum, then tell me what exactly is distinct about the college today. "

I'm with FS on this one. I'm not only a former staffer in the HC, but I'm also a graduate. The HC used to be a rigorous and distinctive program (and one of the oldest HC's in the nation). It was well-respected under the Lucas and Fleming administrations. Now, it seems to be hanging on for dear life. It's nothing against Ken Panton or the other staffers there...it's the disheartening news that both Colloquium and Forum are being disbanded. What is left to make HC distinctive? Not much, I'm afraid.

Date: May 5, 2004

tomcat--i'm awake and took a look at what you said and then did a little digging myself. i hope those are your conclusions and not those of the accrediting committee. as i said to the LSU grad student--i think you have a conclusion and are looking for data to support it. I went to the USM Factbooks for the 01-02, 02-03, and 03-04 years, the only years I had access to from home, and here's what I found (to all readers check it out for yourselves--these factbooks are on the usm website. Don't take my word for these numbers)

Entering freshmen with ACT less than 15:

03-04 = 12

02-03 = 31

01-02 = 19

Entering freshmen with ACT greater than 30:

03-04 = 25

02-03 = 38

01-02 = 31

Average ACT of entering freshmen:

03-04 = 20.8

02-03 = 20.8

01-02 = 20.9

As to this last one (average ACT), tomcat you are wrong about a 12% decrease. it is more like a 1/2% decrease, and in the parlance of statisticians, it's not a "statistically significant" decrease at that.

Date: May 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: lddad
"tomcat--i'm awake and took a look at what you said and then did a little digging myself. i hope those are your conclusions and not those of the accrediting committee. as i said to the LSU grad student--i think you have a conclusion and are looking for data to support it. I went to the USM Factbooks for the 01-02, 02-03, and 03-04 years, the only years I had access to from home, and here's what I found (to all readers check it out for yourselves--these factbooks are on the usm website. Don't take my word for these numbers) Entering freshmen with ACT less than 15: 03-04 = 12 02-03 = 31 01-02 = 19 Entering freshmen with ACT greater than 30: 03-04 = 25 02-03 = 38 01-02 = 31 Average ACT of entering freshmen: 03-04 = 20.8 02-03 = 20.8 01-02 = 20.9 As to this last one (average ACT), tomcat you are wrong about a 12% decrease. it is more like a 1/2% decrease, and in the parlance of statisticians, it's not a "statistically significant" decrease at that. "

Iddad:

I spoke with the person who had the report on the methodology for the second average of 20.8. USM used a little known rule that allows for them count the highest components of the test for admittees that took the exam more than once. In other words if I took the test twice and scored 21 and 14, you can count the 21. Let's say that the 21 contained a 20 in math while the 14 had 21 in math, then you could take the 21 and put together a score that might even be a little higher than a 21 composite.

Iddad: contact the CBED Programs committee for an explanation of this type of tactic.

Date: May 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: tomcat
" Iddad: I spoke with the person who had the report on the methodology for the second average of 20.8. USM used a little known rule that allows for them count the highest components of the test for admittees that took the exam more than once. In other words if I took the test twice and scored 21 and 14, you can count the 21. Let's say that the 21 contained a 20 in math while the 14 had 21 in math, then you could take the 21 and put together a score that might even be a little higher than a 21 composite. Iddad: contact the CBED Programs committee for an explanation of this type of tactic. "

iddad:

one more thing, the data I saw don't exactly match these and go back much further. You should really get in touch and check out the report.

tc