Not a whole lot of doubt about Hanbury's intent, is there?

Robert Campbell

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Originally posted by: lvn
"Is this absolutely for real?  The university whatever-the-devil-kind-of-legal-thingamabobby is scolding the DEANS?  Is reporting the DEANS to the PRESIDENT?  And our deans are having to call their own lawyers in the course of doing their jobs?  Please tell me this is a joke.  Talk about out of control!!"

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I believe this is real.  I received info about this earlier.

Oh, and if it is for real, I certainly hope that a few of the "misguided personal counsel" jump on this with all their might.

There are only five deans, right?  And we know Dana Thames is not being rebuked, so that leaves four.  The email says "a couple of you" so at least two are involved.  I wish they would resign forthwith, loudly and publicly, but that's probably asking too much.  Dollars to donuts one of 'em is Dr. Doty?

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Originally posted by: Qweeg
"   Quite simply, regardless of what you or your misguided personal counsel think, the law means you take your orders from Dr. Thames and it is not up to you to decide to do otherwise. "

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Interesting choice of words, "take your ORDERS". I guess all should respond, "Aye aye Captain Queeg."

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Originally posted by: doc candidate
"The "misguided counsel" that I'm aware of is spitting fire."

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And as soon as somebody promises to pay him, he'll be ready to roll. That's the problem -- the administration of the university has essentially unlimited resources, but those who choose to oppose it must pay out of their own pockets.

Thames knows this. Lawsuits seldom involve justice; they are games of fiscal attrition.

Good point, Missi, that's one of the uglier thngs that's been said to date.  Clears up a lot, though, doesn't it!  Talk about revealing!  I know we are pretty much agreed that the AG's office is not on our side, but surely this must be brought to Mr. Hood's and the Governor's attention.  Preferbly by other attorneys.

I have a question -- is this in reference to the information that was requested by the FS that was shown in another thread where ST chastised the FS for wasting time requesting info, etc.  If so, doesn't it seem "odd" that FS says either he has provided the info, or get it from the deans and chairs, and then here the memo says to the deans, don't provide it?  Just wondering.

Is there any way this "memo" can be leaked to the media????? Are any news reporters reading this board on a regular basis????? I sure hope so....

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Originally posted by: Advocate
"I have a question -- is this in reference to the information that was requested by the FS that was shown in another thread where ST chastised the FS for wasting time requesting info, etc.  If so, doesn't it seem "odd" that FS says either he has provided the info, or get it from the deans and chairs, and then here the memo says to the deans, don't provide it?  Just wondering."

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This is directly related to the request from Faculty Senate. More than one dean contacted a lawyer for legal advice about the Mississippi Freedom of Inforamation Act. One of the respondents submitted the names of those who were recommended for mid-year raises AND signed permission from those people to release the information to the Faculty Senate.

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Originally posted by: lvn
"There are only five deans, right?  And we know Dana Thames is not being rebuked, so that leaves four.  The email says "a couple of you" so at least two are involved.  I wish they would resign forthwith, loudly and publicly, but that's probably asking too much.  Dollars to donuts one of 'em is Dr. Doty?"

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Pierce is the Dean of COEP. He was the interim dean at th time of the raises but has recently been named dean. Dana, the chair of CISE, received the largest merit raise of all.

I think you folks are misreading this memo...USM is in a process of healing now...this is a "healing memo." 

Sorry, you're right..."heel" fits better.

 

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Originally posted by: lvn
"No, dear, the word is "heel" as in "follow along after one's master""

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A thought.  If Hanbury is accusing a Dean(s) of being grossly insubordinate, then doesen't that mean that there has to be an earlier directive (or ORDER) from Thames telling the Dean's NOT to comply with the MS Open Records Act? 

In other words, what is the act of insubordination commited here?

No Quarter,  EyeonUSM

 

When I consider Hanbury's email as a text, I am struck by the angry, impromptu tone of it.  This is someone who is worried and possibly afraid.  So, what is he so afraid of?  And how does this tie into the fact of his change of status? 

And where is Lee Gore? 

I just came in from doing errands and found this thread. Frankly, I am dumbstruck. This is incredible. The arrogance of this administration just blows me away.

No quarter!

Jo Hailey, Former (and never-to-be-Emeritus) Professor of Psychology

Have their offices been locked?  computers confiscated?  Gross insubordination is a firing offense most places...however, complying with an FOIA request makes this interesting...bring those sattelite trucks back! here we go again!

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Originally posted by: doc candidate
"Actually, it was sent to all six. This includes the University Librarian."

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How can we verify this memo?  Doc Candidate, how did you get a copy?  I think we need to make sure it's real before using it as "evidence."  If it is real, then it's just more proof of the insanity of the Thames Administration.

Fire Shelby, what is your e-mail address?

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Originally posted by: doc candidate
"Fire Shelby, what is your e-mail address?"

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fireshelby@yahoo.com

 

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Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"I just sent an email to Janet Braswell, Kevin Walters, Toni Kontz and Nikki Maute at the Hattiesburg American about this.  We'll see if they respond."

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Riva might like to know, too.

Let's hope that Kevin or Nikki picks up on it.  Janet needs to just join Lisa in the PR department.

quote:

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Originally posted by:
" Riva might like to know, too. Let's hope that Kevin or Nikki picks up on it.  Janet needs to just join Lisa in the PR department."

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I'll go send a copy to Riva now.  And the Student Printz, while I'm thinking about it.

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Originally posted by: LordJim
"Is there any way this "memo" can be leaked to the media????? Are any news reporters reading this board on a regular basis????? I sure hope so.... "

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I know that a staffer with the Hattiesburg American reads the board.

The war is raging...Tim Hudson has been trying to find a way to fire Dean Doty for months...seems to have a problem with Harold Doty's integrity and quality standards.  Mostly, he has a problem with Doty's refusal to do his dirty work. 

Tim Hudson's hands are over this entire mess and his strategy is to get Shelby Thames to fire Doty.  Shelby Thames won't be able to stand any more controversy so it may be his downfall and Hudson will slither into the role he has coveted for years.  Lots of people know this and many who know have seen Hudson operate just like this in the past. 

Will Harold Doty get fired?  Maybe.  Will it take down the Thames presidency?  Maybe.  But watch out what you ask for because you just might get it. 

Given Fire Shelby's confirmation that the deans were ordered not to respond to the FOIA request, I withdraw my suggestion that Thames considers people insubordinate when he didn't even order them to do anything.

Robert Campbell

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Originally posted by: Anne Wallace
"Actually, I think Hanbury's wrong: we work for the IHL Board. They issue contracts, approve tenure, etc. Then there's the question of why he wants "our" boss to be in violation of federal law. Anybody forward this memo to Jim Hood? "

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I included it in my letter to the governor.  I'll post on another thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Anne Wallace
"Actually, I think Hanbury's wrong: we work for the IHL Board. They issue contracts, approve tenure, etc."

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IIRC, faculty are employed by the IHL board. Administrators serve at the discretion of the president, as does staff. This is why the G&S firing was monumental. Thames has been dismissing administrators that "oppose" his great ideas since he became president.

On the flip, all Shelby can do is bump a dean back to faculty rank ... until he can trump up some charge, stage another pig circus & get rid of them with a 2-year payoff.

Then there's the question of why he wants "our" boss to be in violation of federal law.
"

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One word answer: teflon. If the dean breaks the federal law, that's the dean's problem (and also a great reason to fire the dean). If the dean does not break the federal law, the dean is insubordinate.

Anybody forward this memo to Jim Hood?
"

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More importantly, does anybody think Jim Hood would give a rat's a$$ about it? I don't. Hood demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt last Friday exactly what high regard he has for USM.

If anybody thinks differently, I'd sure like some of what you've been smoking.

I'm just darned impressed at JH's ability to violate so many rules in one little email.  Boy, talk about your efficiency!!

quote:

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Originally posted by: Tinctoris
"MISSISSIPPI RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT

Effective July 1, 1987

RULE 8.4 MISCONDUCT

It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to:

(a) violate or attempt to violate the rules of professional conduct, knowingly assist or induce another to do so, or do so through the acts of another;

(b) commit a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects;

(c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;

(d) engage in conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice;

(e) state or imply an ability to influence improperly a government agency or official; or

(f) knowingly assist a judge or judicial officer in conduct that is a violation of applicable rules of judicial conduct or other law."

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I have just re read the memo sent out by Mr. Hanbury, it would appear that he has violated his own code of conduct,at least item c, would it not? Maybe the 'misguided counsel' can use this to his and your advantage. Maybe this 'misguided counsel' can contact the bar in Mississippi and start asking a few questions, or report misbehavior on the part of a fellow attorney (and I'll use that term lightly)

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Originally posted by: Qweeg
"You are insulated from personal liability for doing so."

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Hmmm... Isn't that the "I was just following orders defense" that worked so well at Nuremburg or more recently at The Hague?

Is anyone familiar with the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (www.thefire.org)? Sounds to me like someone should submit a USM case at their website. Also, browse some of the cases they have brought against other universities.

This is my first posting and may be a bit late.....but I know for a fact that one of the deans who provided the information did, indeed, receive written (or electronic) permission from individual faculty members to release the information.  Seems to me this was legal. 

How very sad (and in my mind unforgivable) that those faculty members deemed worthy of a mid-year raise by their deans were then taken off the list by Thames.  Hmmm........seems like a great way to loose valuable, productive faculty.  Talk about a morale killer...work hard...have your dean recognize you...then be denied by "the powers that be."  Does Thames KNOW who the most productive/valuable/worthy faculty members are in EACH college?

Thames could have avoided this whole situation by simply saying, "Yes, the list submitted for CONSIDERATION for raises and the list of those actually receiving raises differ.  I took 'additional information' (or additionl criteria) into my deliberations."

Now, it is very clear that the only values, opinions and actions he considers valid are his own.  So, why have deans?  Why have a variety of departments....just become a polymer science institute...and sell everything and everyone else off...oh, and keep the football team.........

No one seems to have commented on it, but the Hanbury memo never mentions the Provost.

I guess it's because everyone at USM has become accustomed to Thames going around Hudson all the time.

But direct orders from a president to deans are pretty rare, most places.

Robert Campbell

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Originally posted by: Invictus
" Be reasonable! You need a variety of departments, especially business administration & athletic administration, so the football players will have a major where they are likely to be able to maintain their eligibility (i.e., pass). (In all sincerity, the USM athletic department has a very respectable graduation rate compared with other Div I schools. I don't think this would be the case if the athletes all had to major in chemistry.) "

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Correct me on this if I am wrong, an old guy who use to be on the faculty did a couple of studies on grade inflation and act scores in the early 80" and one several years ago.  Before criticizing departments you need to locate the study and get this guy to visit the campus.  What was his name?  I remember he was very impressive when I talked with him.

Maybe USM is different, but at most schools of which I'm aware, business administration is one of the tougher majors.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by: Invictus
" Be reasonable! You need a variety of departments, especially business administration & athletic administration, so the football players will have a major where they are likely to be able to maintain their eligibility (i.e., pass). (In all sincerity, the USM athletic department has a very respectable graduation rate compared with other Div I schools. I don't think this would be the case if the athletes all had to major in chemistry.) "

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quote:

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Originally posted by: Invictus
" Be reasonable! You need a variety of departments, especially business administration & athletic administration, so the football players will have a major where they are likely to be able to maintain their eligibility (i.e., pass). (In all sincerity, the USM athletic department has a very respectable graduation rate compared with other Div I schools. I don't think this would be the case if the athletes all had to major in chemistry.) "

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Don't know about athletic administration, but the only department I've heard about in the College of Business Administration that has serious grade inflation problems is economic development. 

That's probably okay though because economic development weeds out all the low performing students on the front end with its rigorous admission criteria...

quote:

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Originally posted by: Invictus
"


Seriously, business admin has historically been the listed major for a LOT of athletes, second only to athletic administration (or in the old days, P.E.), IIRC.

"

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The pre Thames College of Business had the most rigorous grade distribution of all the colleges by a wide margin. That is the source of the cultural clash with the "blue light special" economic development program.

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Originally posted by: Mississippian in Exile
"That would be some guy named Frank Glamser who did those studies on grade inflation. How ironic! Yes, as suggested in your posting above, he is very impressive. Frank used to teach at USM as I recall."

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I think he still can teach, if his Chair assigns him a class. It isn't prohibited by the agreement, unless there is a secret part to it. I read the whole thing several times.

Otherside

quote:

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Originally posted by: indy eagle
"There was a study just last year about inflation at USM... If I remember right, the Dana Thames led college of ed was the worst offender, with 90% or more As in upper level courses. History was the lowest, with just around half As & Bs in upper level, if I remember."

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You remember, quite correctly!!!!!

And some of my buddies over in CISE said that DGT was pretty chalked up about FG's report on it.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"No one seems to have commented on it, but the Hanbury memo never mentions the Provost. I guess it's because everyone at USM has become accustomed to Thames going around Hudson all the time. But direct orders from a president to deans are pretty rare, most places. Robert Campbell"

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Despite what Hudson minions posting on this board are discussing as the importance of a "centralized" response, there is a much more personal reason that Hudson did not want to respond to Faculty Senate.  In this case, the provost clearly did not want the deans to respond to the FOIA requests.  That is because the provost himself chose which names to take off the list from each college and which names to add to the college lists - he decided what people needed to be compensated for their loyalty (and silence?) Slippery Tim may finally get caught on this one. 

NO QUARTER!

 

Hanberry indicates there is no difference between a request for information from parties external to the organization, USM, and those internal.  I guess this implies that his office is the sole office to process requests for all releases of information whether it is to the news media, general replies to questions from the public regarding courses and course content, etc.  So I would gather that all inquires to anyone and all at USM should be directed to his office.  Anyone care to post his email address and office phone number so all inquires can be directed to him.