Why hate Jackson State?

Date: May 9, 2004

Why hate Jackson State?

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ColorBlinded
"What is this self-serving smugness about USM not "being a Jackson State"?"

I've been known to opine that the intent of some members of the IHL board is to "reduce" USM to J-State status. What I mean by that is this: A few years back, IHL designated USM, MSU & Ole Myth as "comprehensive" universities; MUW, Delta State, Alcorn & Valley were "regional" universities, and JSU was the "urban" university. When I say "reduce" USM to J-State status, I mean killing the breadth of the curriculum enough so it cannot aspire to be on a par with either MSU or UM. That's all.

Date: May 9, 2004

Invictus has seen the light.

This is it.

No more and no less. IHL found a willing dictator to implement the plan, who has no idea he is contributing to relegating USM to fourth place.

Then, of course, after a few decasdes, USM's funding is fourth behind MSU, Ole Miss and JSU.

IT is happening right in front of our eyes, yet the conspirators never use such words.

Date: May 9, 2004

CB, I understand what you are saying. I have a sincere question to ask you. Where do well educated, middle class black families, or black families with very capable students in their midst, want their children to go to college?

And I ask as the grandmother of a Jewish child whose parents wouldn't consider letting her attend school in Mississippi.

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"CB, I understand what you are saying. I have a sincere question to ask you. Where do well educated, middle class black families, or black families with very capable students in their midst, want their children to go to college? And I ask as the grandmother of a Jewish child whose parents wouldn't consider letting her attend school in Mississippi."

Speaking as WASP parents of two teenagers - before this mess, we had planned to send them to USM. I can tell you that we're currently siding with the parents of your grandchild...not at USM and probably not in Mississippi! Quality is colorblind. Unfortunately, USM no longer seems to be committed to quality.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: Wasp
"Speaking as WASP parents of two teenagers - before this mess, we had planned to send them to USM. I can tell you that we're currently siding with the parents of your grandchild...not at USM and probably not in Mississippi! Quality is colorblind. Unfortunately, USM no longer seems to be committed to quality."

Isn't it nice to have the financial ability to send your child(ren) out of state? Unfortunately, many people are not able to do so. Many Mississippians' choice of the university to which they send their children is based on proximity. We must remember those people as we fight to save USM.

Date: May 9, 2004

Thanks for the response, LVN. I would think that any black family, regardless of the classism debate, would envision that their children would go to a challenging university that elevates their minds from the herd mentality of public secondary schools.

"Old Myth" as one poster wrote, waves the same flag of sedition as flies over several southern universities including USM, but the leap of faith to send them to any Mississippi college ultimately relies upon the atmosphere. Jackson State and Tougaloo at least have numbers of administration and faculty representative of the student body. USM rallies around many issues, but IHL's continued struggle to desegregate (or segregate as the courts decide) should be an cause that USM is at the head of change in this state.

"Urban" has constantly been a moniker that separates and labels "other people," yet there has not been an urban gene determined or discovered in one's genetic make-up or mental faculties. What USM presents is a blueprint for success, but lead architects in each department at USM need to abandon this project for the university to grow.

One point to consider, I have a Irish American colleague that chose Jackson State for his graduate work in Environmental Sciences before obtaining a faculty position at Louisiana State Univ. His (and his family's) reason? Diversity.

TwoPennies

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by:
"Isn't it nice to have the financial ability to send your child(ren) out of state? Unfortunately, many people are not able to do so. Many Mississippians' choice of the university to which they send their children is based on proximity. We must remember those people as we fight to save USM."

Who said anything about paying out of state tuition? We are considering moving to where the educational opportunities are better for our teenagers before they start college - if things don't improve. That's not the point of my post or, I believe, of yours however. I was trying to say that the decision was not one based on race or religion but on quality. Your message was that quality education in Mississippi must be affordable and accessible. I absolutely concur - problem is that the overall quality at USM is going down.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by: Wasp
"Who said anything about paying out of state tuition? We are considering moving to where the educational opportunities are better for our teenagers before they start college - if things don't improve. That's not the point of my post or, I believe, of yours however. I was trying to say that the decision was not one based on race or religion but on quality. Your message was that quality education in Mississippi must be affordable and accessible. I absolutely concur - problem is that the overall quality at USM is going down. "

Again, many people can't afford to just pick up and move out of state. It is great that you can, but this isn't an option for many people, which is exactly why we must not let the plummet of higher ed continue in Mississippi. We are fighting for the future of this state's children--all of them.

Date: May 9, 2004

Well, my granddaughter doesn't live in Mississippi, she lives on the West Coast. But in discussions of the family moving back to the South, the education iissue is a big factor. My family are WASP, my granddaughter is Jewish because her mother is Jewish. The parents fear both prejudice and lower standards. I have been impressed with my closer ties to the Jewish culture in which education is HIGHLY valued, and money is put where the mouth is!!

I noted on another thread that if national searches rather than Thames searches had been conducted for many positions, USM might indeed have a diverse and representative administration.

Date: May 10, 2004

I must say, when I've read the comments about turning USM into another JSU, I took it to mean that JSU doesn't have a fantastic reputation around the state. But, JSU offers an excellent educational opportunity for Mississippians and others. But it just isn't a place that most people think of for education.

Just because USM, State, and Ole Miss are "comprehensive" universities doesn't mean you can't get a good education at any of Mississippi's institutions. But there is always the funding issue. Which schools have alumni in important positions in the State? It isn't JSU and it isn't USM.

We need to stay focused as much as possible. USM needs to be rid of Shelby Thames. Otherwise USM will be turned into Forrest County Community College.

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle in Cairo, Egypt
"Otherwise USM will be turned into Forrest County Community College. "

If that appears likely, you can bet that Dr. William Lewis down at PRCC will have something to say about that! I think he'd be happy to get the USM Hattiesburg Campus as an expansion for PRCC's Forrest County Center

Date: May 10, 2004

Re: the out of state tuition

"back in da day", USM had a deal where if you marched in the Pride, you got an out-of-state tuition waiver, plus $150 or so a semester.

This meant that the Pride had about 40% of its members from LA, AL, and the panhandle of Florida.

During either Fleming or the initial year of Thames, that went by the wayside "to cut costs".

Of course, it was all "funny money" anyway, as it represented no real dollars.

Let me assure you that very few of these students would have attended USM had the out-of-state tuition waiver not been there. As it was, it was cheaper for me to attend USM out-of-state than FSU in-state.

Now, the idea of USM attracting out-of-state students in any way, shape, or form, is laughable.

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Miles Long
"Re: the out of state tuition "back in da day", USM had a deal where if you marched in the Pride, you got an out-of-state tuition waiver, plus $150 or so a semester. This meant that the Pride had about 40% of its members from LA, AL, and the panhandle of Florida. During either Fleming or the initial year of Thames, that went by the wayside "to cut costs". Of course, it was all "funny money" anyway, as it represented no real dollars. Let me assure you that very few of these students would have attended USM had the out-of-state tuition waiver not been there. As it was, it was cheaper for me to attend USM out-of-state than FSU in-state. Now, the idea of USM attracting out-of-state students in any way, shape, or form, is laughable."

Also, back in "da day," the Honors College used to attract lots of great students from out-of-state (there was an ACT cut-off score...think it was 25, but I could be remembering wrong...anyone with an ACT above that would get an automatic out-of-state tuition waiver). What hurt their recruitment in LA was the creation of the statewide ACT scholarship program (something along the lines of anyone with an ACT score of 26 or above got a free ride to any LA state univ.).

Also, all HC students used to get a $150/semester scholarship just for being in HC (we called it a "book scholarhip," though it rarely covered the cost of books even then). Wonder if that's been cut, too? Would be interesting to see the statistics on the incoming freshman class of HC students this year...

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ColorBlinded
"Do memories fail concerning the incident of two years ago when after J State's game at the Rock, visitors and others of their "tone" were harassed and, for an unfortunate few, beaten? No protests then, we were just the USM la familia. However, I carried a Louisville that night around the PINE to aid anyone impulsive youth that felt that they had to take their heritage out on me. __"

You need to get your facts straight before coming over here and shooting off at the mouth in such a matter. You boys weren't hunted down and beaten because of their race as you are trying to make it out to be. That racist BS doesn't cut it here. Did you ever stop and think they might have been provoked? No, that wouldn't make a good story to cry about. Nobody here is trying to take thier heritage out on anyone....when you go around looking for a fight, sometimes you bite off more than you can chew.

Date: May 10, 2004

Big boy, I'm a man so I don't engage in fantasies about "biting" anything relating to another human being. The BS you discuss happened in a MS courtroom when charges were written off on a bunch of you "good buddies" whose have close ties to dear Shelby. Competition brings out the heroes and the cowards and I met several that night (they always travel in packs). That the pernicious nature of "relations" and politics in this state, and when you throw around "urban" like it's an immovable object, that's BS.

I'd shut your mouth but my zipper's stuck, so stick with the what you know. The discussion of race makes plenty of folks itchy around these parts but I always carry a scratching stick for those people adverse to conversation. Courage is an individual decision, so we don't have to blindly support "THE CAUSE" when so many other battles have been waged on this campus and in this state against the universities without the help of you "Reds." Necktie justice has multiple meanings in this state, and it has happened under the regime of plenty of "heritage-minded" people. Stay in your place.

NEVER AGAIN

Date: May 11, 2004

call it playing devil's advocate or call it clarification, but the absence of "diversity" among administration and faculty can't be wholly attributed to thames. for years now, less than 10% of the faculty has been african-american, while the number of black students continues to increase (a number, i might add, that wasn't always welcomed by our bowtied buddy).

quote:

Originally posted by: LVN
"Well, my granddaughter doesn't live in Mississippi, she lives on the West Coast. But in discussions of the family moving back to the South, the education iissue is a big factor. My family are WASP, my granddaughter is Jewish because her mother is Jewish. The parents fear both prejudice and lower standards. I have been impressed with my closer ties to the Jewish culture in which education is HIGHLY valued, and money is put where the mouth is!! I noted on another thread that if national searches rather than Thames searches had been conducted for many positions, USM might indeed have a diverse and representative administration."

Date: May 11, 2004

Hey, I DON'T hate Jackson State.

Everytime I see that damn slogan "ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME" I think, "Oh, yeah? How about Jackson State at Memorial Stadium sometime between September 1 and December 15?

It will never happen.

Too bad, too. Between the two of us, we could fill the place up. And that has not happened many times in the last few years.

Date: May 11, 2004

I apologize in advance for injecting football into the discussion on this board. My season ticket order form is sitting at home, and I have not decided how to respond. Guess it is weighing on my mind.

I haven't missed a USM home game in twenty four years, but I am just not very excited about supporting the home team this year.

Date: May 11, 2004

I haven't missed a USM home game in twenty four years, but I am just not very excited about supporting the home team this year."

I know how you feel. I quit regularly attending USM games two years ago, although I usually follow them on the radio or the web. In fact, I've found I can mow the lawn, go fishing, or whatever while enjoying the game.

But there is a Catch 22 to dropping support.

If attendance actually declines, Thames will put the blame squarely on Jeff Bower & his staff. This is precisely what some of the used car guys would love to see happen, but it would polarize the Hattiesburg-Petal community far past anything anybody could imagine.

OTOH, if the team is successful & the stadium is filled, it gets taken by the power mongers as vindication for all of Shelby's policies.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

Date: May 11, 2004

HOORAY for the football fans!! Seems like all good things on this campus degrade into all terrible things Shelby. My discussion about JS, MSU, or even PRCC is based upon not only racial inequities fostered by the IHL, but class inequities statewide. Should a graduate from an "urban" school like Jackson State be any less prepared for a professional career than a graduate from the urbane USM?Neither pithy quotes nor mocha mashdowns make one educational experience more valued than another.

What I had hoped to point out was that many of the suits and neckties (bowties included) have given short shrift to several minority communities on this campus for decades. Shelby and his Thamatrons have simply been more flagrant in their offenses. SFT talks with pride over his conversion of Asian students that he's taught through grade intimidation to get them to "speak good English" so that they can be anointed by their Fearless Leader.

ANYONE has the right to a complete education ANYWHERE in this state, so is this ANYTIME to be minimalizing yet another stain upon the SFT syndicate?

NO QUARTER

Date: May 11, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ColorBlinded
"HOORAY for the football fans!! . . . ANYONE has the right to a complete education ANYWHERE in this state, so is this ANYTIME to be minimalizing yet another stain upon the SFT syndicate? "

Oh, no! If you're not careful, CB, you'll redeem that slogan -- then you'll have to fix "SMTTT."