dave elliott's show..

Date: May 9, 2004

dave elliott's show..

Date: May 9, 2004

Wiesenburg is doing very well. Myron is doing good. Have had one caller that's a Shelby's the boss guy, a big anti Thames caller, and one sorta anti-Thames. A prank caller said one of the WLOX persons (news reporter) was a lesbian.

Date: May 9, 2004

Elliot asked what harm has shelby to anyone by checking e-mails.

Caller named Susan answered that he slandered Rachel Q. And made the point that it was a student that he slandered.

Date: May 9, 2004

Show just ended. Last caller was a woman from Long Beach who said that Thames slandered Rachel Quinlivan in the hearings, and has yet to apologize. Elliott said he has been closely following the Quinlivan storyline.

Elliott pointed out several times that Wiesenbury is going to University of Alaska. Both men said 100s of faculty are fleeing USM.

Date: May 9, 2004

elliot said "Angie may be a casuality of all this". Does he know something that we don't?

Date: May 9, 2004

Dr. Henry did exceptionally well. I thought that Elliott did a bit of a 180 on this one, but maybe he's just trying to come across as "fair".

Still convinced that Myron Henry should at least be interim pres.

Date: May 9, 2004

I was impressed. Think of how much pressure they felt, and how hard it is to come up with the right thing off the cuff like that. They did well, and Dave Elliott helped.

Date: May 9, 2004

Both men came across as intelligent, thoughtful and emotionally stable. The contrast with Klumb would be obvious to all. Any stereotypes about crazy faculty members were put to rest.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

Someone please provide a recap of the show...questions David asked, profs' responses, discussion of Klumb.

What was said about Angie?

What was said about Mark and Jack?

What did callers say?

Thanks for any info!

Date: May 9, 2004

One problem I had with the show is the reference to "Professors urging students to protest". Tried to call in and answer that, but the lines were tied up as usual. I'm thinking about asking Mr. Elliott to have a couple of students on the show, to speak to why the students are concerned. Is there a student that will go on with me? Any pros/cons before I email him?

Date: May 9, 2004

if i work from the premise that two USM people could change attitudes of the non-USM audience, i thought it was a mediocre performance by both USM people. Wiesenburg's move to Alaska undercut his credibility--could have taken a stronger position, but didn't. Henry took a standard former adminstrator/faculty senate position and used the same language. can't adapt to a broader audience well. same problem he had as provost.

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: cindy
"One problem I had with the show is the reference to "Professors urging students to protest". Tried to call in and answer that, but the lines were tied up as usual. I'm thinking about asking Mr. Elliott to have a couple of students on the show, to speak to why the students are concerned. Is there a student that will go on with me? Any pros/cons before I email him? "

Good idea. I doubt that Dave will do a third show (unless the crisis heats up) but it will serve notice that students are interested and do have views on the matter.

He asked them good questions: the kinds of questions he knows the public is asking. They did very well I think -- I have always thought that if they could actually see the way faculty really are (as in calm and pretty rational and very caring for the university and its students) then that alone would be a win even if we couldn't make all our points. I think we did real well on all counts -- especially in contrast to Klumb. The pro Thames caller and the "lezzie" call were a bonus as they highlighted the reasonableness of the two professors.

Date: May 9, 2004

Did you all watch a different show than I did?

Regardless of how the two very able bodied, and gentlemenly faculty did and how honorably they stated their case, it was admitted that THAMES WAS INDEED HIRED BY IHL TO 'CLEAN HOUSE.'

Myron should have jumped on this, and Dave repeated twice more on live TV that Thames and Klumb both told him his job was to tear down and clean house.

Now we know, the cat is out of the bag. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle.

I wish Myron, with all due respect, could have questioned a state appointed board's desire "tear down" one state supported institution, "cleaning house" and wreaking havoc. I am sure Dr. Henry and Denis were caught off guard.

That proves the conspiracy theory right there, and now there is NO WAY to restore trust even if both parties try. The faculty know why he was hired and this is not going to change.

I think this will get out and almost NO qualified faculty will NOW want to come to place they know the president is tearing down and cleaning out and destroying tenure.

What the profs missed is simple?

Is the board listening? Noel?

Why is USM singled out to tear down, while up at Starkville and Oxford, life and research and faculty governance and academic freedom go on like always.

Why is it poor ole "Misipi Southn' that is selected to tear apart?

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: lddad
"if i work from the premise that two USM people could change attitudes of the non-USM audience, i thought it was a mediocre performance by both USM people. Wiesenburg's move to Alaska undercut his credibility--could have taken a stronger position, but didn't. Henry took a standard former adminstrator/faculty senate position and used the same language. can't adapt to a broader audience well. same problem he had as provost. "

Iddad, I agree that the academic vocabulary is a problem -- most people don't really understand what is going on. I liked "John" who thought snooping in email and violating privacy was just as bad as (what he perceived as) what G & S did. Judging from people I talk to, there is not much public comphrension of the idea of shared governance, etc., and academics are not doing a real great job explaining it. But I did think that Dr. Weisenburg's departure helped illuminate the problem.

Date: May 9, 2004

Dr. Klumb? I think not!

Date: May 9, 2004

WLOX call-in show, may 9th, some notes

Moderator (M)
Weisenberg (W)
Henry (H)
Caller (C)

M - I think that Klumb's comments contributed to the controversy.

W - the university has changed in a way that is not as friendly to faculty as previous administrations. We want to be in a place where there is mutual respect.

H - If we had had a national search, the issues with Dvorak should have been addressed early on

W - with a reorganization you need "buy in" and it has been difficult for groups to come together.

W - at Ingall's (spelling - shipyard) you involve the highly skilled people in decision making. At USM you should involve the higly-skilled educators who teach students. Many think that professors have a cushy job, but they work beyond the normal workday hours grading papers, preparing lessons, etc. They are developing minds for tomorrow.

M - Hanbury was a "shadowy character" that no one seemed to like.

H - the dissent has been legitimate. We'll heal more quickly with other leadership.

Q from Viewer - Don't see how one can run a university with this kind of problem, without academic freedom.

W - I think the main problem is that trust has been broken between faculty and administration. Roy Klumb suggested fence building, but this has not happened.

Caller - I have utmost respect for Thames. The person at the top won't and should not consult middle management.

H - I've certainly sought out opinion of faculty members to see how decisions might affect them.

W - Universities do not operate the way businesses do - participation in the decision processes is important. Look at the recent MSU (starkville) hire for Vice President for Research.

Caller - Grad of USM -
Reading email is an invasion of privacy
Profs should be working and not paid to not work
Everybody should "grow up and move on"

H - We've had 2 years of trying to work with Thames
Something should be working a lot better than it is.

Caller - Klumb said last week that Thames was hired to "clean house." How can these two guys condemn a man for doing the job he's hired to do by the IHL?

W: Goal was to create a great university. Thames wants it, the faculty want it, but getting rid of faculty is not the way to do it.

H: I cannot believe that the IHL wants him to do what he has been doing. Thames has not involved the staff and faculty in so many decisions. You do not build a great university by having faculty leave!

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ConspiracyTheoryProven
Why is USM singled out to tear down, while up at Starkville and Oxford, life and research and faculty governance and academic freedom go on like always. Why is it poor ole "Misipi Southn' that is selected to tear apart?"

Three reasons -- no, four: money, money, money and control of the Coast.

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: lddad
"if i work from the premise that two USM people could change attitudes of the non-USM audience, i thought it was a mediocre performance by both USM people. Wiesenburg's move to Alaska undercut his credibility--could have taken a stronger position, but didn't. Henry took a standard former adminstrator/faculty senate position and used the same language. can't adapt to a broader audience well. same problem he had as provost. "

I can see your point iddad. I thought under pressure they did well. I never really assumed we can change the minds of the hard core folk. I think the vast number of folk who are in the middle of this and not quite sure whch side is right at least got a look at two people who look very different than the description provided by Thames and the cabal . . . .

I think their performance was in tough circumstances because it had to be nuanced enough to not be perceived as a threat by the board (especially the incoming folks). Virginia has a tough job this week and the wrong word or phrase could make it tougher. I've certainly heard Myron speak more pointedly and effectively on this but I think he did well enough.

Date: May 9, 2004

Thanks to Bogusboy, who also provided an excellent blow-by-blow account on the hearings! Have you ever considered becoming a court reporter?

Date: May 9, 2004

you may be right. but stanley fish had an article in the chronicle recently (last month?) where he suggests that the way you deal with those who are non-academics is being more straightforward.

i don't think the usm people were under that much stress. i think they were less than effective.

Date: May 9, 2004

I think there was a missed opportunity when one of the Pro-Thames callers discussed how a CEO would normally confer only with senior staff and would never descend to the middle management or worker ranks to solicit opinions. It might have been helpful at that point for Dr. Henry or Dr. Weisenburg to point out that the senior staff at USM consists primarily of people brought in from the outside without national searches - people who don't understand the "industry" in which they are working. If the reports of serious disfunction at the senior staff level are true, then it would have been a good time to bring that up as well. Finally, I believe the response to this particular caller would have been the time to discuss Dr. Thames' poor management skills as demontrated by the sycophantic cadre surrounding him. The answers provided by both gentlemen were fine (as were their overall performances) but they did not convincingly address the issues raised by this particular caller. Unfortunately, this caller best represented the powerful pro-Thames constituency out there - the group that must be swayed by reasonable, logical, non-academic arguments.

Date: May 9, 2004

I didn't see the show, so I can't legitimately comment on this thread, but it does seem that we want Dr. Henry and the other prof. to solve all the public relations problems in 30 minutes. Just a reminder that it's not possible, any more than the hearing was going to bring down Thames. Just keep marching, folks.

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Salesperson
"I think there was a missed opportunity when one of the Pro-Thames callers discussed how a CEO would normally confer only with senior staff and would never descend to the middle management or worker ranks to solicit opinions. It might have been helpful at that point for Dr. Henry or Dr. Weisenburg to point out that the senior staff at USM consists primarily of people brought in from the outside without national searches - people who don't understand the "industry" in which they are working. If the reports of serious disfunction at the senior staff level are true, then it would have been a good time to bring that up as well. Finally, I believe the response to this particular caller would have been the time to discuss Dr. Thames' poor management skills as demontrated by the sycophantic cadre surrounding him. The answers provided by both gentlemen were fine (as were their overall performances) but they did not convincingly address the issues raised by this particular caller. Unfortunately, this caller best represented the powerful pro-Thames constituency out there - the group that must be swayed by reasonable, logical, non-academic arguments. "

Just one note here that I'll place in favor of our professors on the show tonight. They were on the spot, trying to deliver meaningful and honest commentary on the situation and in response to callers' questions.

All Klumb and Klumber had to do last week was spout off his untrained and big-time-biased opinions (and big mouth), with no regard for fairness, decency or truth.

It takes a little effort to deliver pearls of well-spoken truth and articulate reflection on a far-less-than-30-minute call-in show. Kudos to our USM professors!

Date: May 9, 2004

i agree that we can't expect usm's reps to be miracle workers. but, i think they have to do better than tonight. i like denis wiesenberg but given he's leaving, he has to take certain positions or he's worthless. why him? myron--talks academic--good for the choir, not good for those beyond the church.

Date: May 9, 2004

I have heard before that Thames was brought here, to USM, to "clean house." Tonight was not the first time, but it was confirmed tonight. No longer is it just paranoid faculty thinking the IHL is out to get them. It has been confirmed. It is now time to go over the IHL's head. Start writing the governor, legislators, etc.

Date: May 9, 2004

I thought Myron responded to what Elliott said, didn't he? Elliott didn't say that Klumb and Thames told him outright that the board had ordered him to clean house, did he? I thought he used some qualifying phrase like "they understood the board" to say clean house, which seemed to me hedging, if not outright lies, by both men. I think it perfectly possible that they heard the board say what they wanted to hear the board say, and didn't Myron respond that he doubted the board told them that, in those words? I could have missed it---the phone rang.
Originally posted by: ConspiracyTheoryProven
"Did you all watch a different show than I did? Regardless of how the two very able bodied, and gentlemenly faculty did and how honorably they stated their case, it was admitted that THAMES WAS INDEED HIRED BY IHL TO 'CLEAN HOUSE.' Myron should have jumped on this, and Dave repeated twice more on live TV that Thames and Klumb both told him his job was to tear down and clean house. Now we know, the cat is out of the bag. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle. I wish Myron, with all due respect, could have questioned a state appointed board's desire "tear down" one state supported institution, "cleaning house" and wreaking havoc. I am sure Dr. Henry and Denis were caught off guard. That proves the conspiracy theory right there, and now there is NO WAY to restore trust even if both parties try. The faculty know why he was hired and this is not going to change. I think this will get out and almost NO qualified faculty will NOW want to come to place they know the president is tearing down and cleaning out and destroying tenure. What the profs missed is simple? Is the board listening? Noel? Why is USM singled out to tear down, while up at Starkville and Oxford, life and research and faculty governance and academic freedom go on like always. Why is it poor ole "Misipi Southn' that is selected to tear apart?"

Date: May 9, 2004

Elliott insinuated that Shelby told him that was the reason he was hired, not by the IHL itself. I think that Shelby used that phrase to justify some of his more grievous missteps the last two years (ie the reorganization of the colleges)

Date: May 9, 2004

to Noel

Date: May 9, 2004

RE: dave elliott's show..

Date: May 9, 2004

Dr. Henry had an incredulous look on his face and gave a dismissive head shake to accompany his strong words over the "clean house" statements. He left the audience with the impression that the Institutes of Higher Learning Board Members were far too intelligent to give the President of any University that foolish mandate. It was the highlight of the show and the final take-away segment.

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: noel polk
""

The interesting thing about this noel, is that the idea (which has been an open secret on this campus but not in the general public) now has received exposure (as policy). And that has been expressed by Shelby himself, as Dave himself indicates.

It will be interesting to see how the Board reacts to this if pressed. Will they deny it? Will they try to explain it? Maybe that needs to enter into some of our letters to the Board. If the Board is thinking in those terms, then we at USM have the right to know exactly what that means. What ills is Shelby here to correct? If he has only been brought in to put the university on a better financial footing, that does not necessarily equate to "cleaning house" unless there are a lot of people not performing. So who is not performing? And how is that known and judged?

Is Shelby right when he says he is here to "clean house?" What does that mean, exactly?

Here is a new catch phrase for the war folks, directly out of Shelby's mouth.

Date: May 9, 2004

salesperson

Date: May 9, 2004

RE: RE: dave elliott's show..

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: cindy
"It's possible I missed that statement. However, I agree that it was a good thing it came out. Maybe the Alumni Association folks will finally get pi**** about it a do something. Dr. Henry's look said it all- we don't want to clean house on the faculty, it's the dome that needs a good sweeping!"

I have talked about this very thing with Myron and I believe that he has been reluctant to believe it -- it is a hard thing to believe because it would make many of the Board's pronouncements about its concern for USM to be very cynical.

I still believe the Board as a whole doesn't buy this. I DO believe there is a group within the Board which does and that group has been unified enough to be able to generally get its way. Virginia might very well have gotten some more ammo tonight for her campaign from within. I think we need to feed our anger about this directly to her -- get her to chnallenge the Board that keeping Shelby confirms very bad thing any of us have ever whispered or thought about the Board and its plans for USM. I think those on the Board who don't buy this haven't had a strong enough idea to rally around until now -- this is a pretty strong one and doesn't paint the Board in a pretty light. I wonder how many of the incoming members want to be tarred with that brush?

Date: May 9, 2004

Steven Judd: " have talked about this very thing with Myron and I believe that he has been reluctant to believe it."

Myron has been in the Midwest too long and he has, indeed as you say, had a hard time believing that the acrimony and jealousy could extend this far from the football field. It does. Once Ole Miss, with the La Boave trustee, tried to call a midnight meeting with a quorum to strip USM of leadership in polymer science. I forget the year. They also tried it and succeeded with computer science.

If this does not convince him of the real "agenda" of the Miss. State and Ole Miss IHL members, since the days Bobby Chain got USM more fair treatment, then nothing will.

Myron has too much honor to see the corrupt partisanship so plain to Mississippi natives.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

"clean house." I am heartsick for more reasons than I can tell anyone on this board.

Heartsick. Why even try to continue at USM? There is no future here.

Date: May 9, 2004

But FS, by the end of this past week things had begun to look hopeful! Please don't become discouraged now, after all you, perhaps more than anyone else, have accomplished. Who would have predicted at the beginning of last week, when you also seemed discouraged, that JH would be gone by now? He would probably still be in his office if not for your efforts!

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by:
""clean house." I am heartsick for more reasons than I can tell anyone on this board. Heartsick. Why even try to continue at USM? There is no future here."

Heartsick is definitely the word for it. But I refuse to give up. If a relatively few people could topple Jim Crow, I think that we can topple cronyism in this state. I think most people in Mississippi are tired of being last. We just need to make the average Joe understand what's going on here, especially those who are from Hatt and the surrounding area. FS, don't give up yet. I know what you've been through the last few years, and I empathize more than you know. But don't quit yet. You're too inspiring for me!

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: cindy
"Heartsick is definitely the word for it. But I refuse to give up. If a relatively few people could topple Jim Crow, I think that we can topple cronyism in this state. I think most people in Mississippi are tired of being last. We just need to make the average Joe understand what's going on here, especially those who are from Hatt and the surrounding area. FS, don't give up yet. I know what you've been through the last few years, and I empathize more than you know. But don't quit yet. You're too inspiring for me!"

I agree: FS has not only done an INCREDIBLE amount of solid, hard, practical, nitty-gritty work (simply in maintaining and updating this board, which takes loads of time and effort), but FS has also been an invaluable source of inspiration, with his/her sense of humor, sense of fight, and sense of determination. Hang in there, FS!

Date: May 9, 2004

FS, a voice that echoes "Free Southern," you have made the USM community and beyond vibrate with a collective voice of dissent. Don't get weary. I'm from Louisiana and we've been fed this type of "get-along garbage" for decades, but you know with those good old boys, it's about the Money.

There are sick souls locked behind the encrusted walls of the Administration. This community brought necessary medicine through sustained outrage, empassioned concern, and concentrated efforts to promote change. Concentrate on healing this university and the fevers of your sickness will abate.

Clean houses reflect most deeply upon the owner, and there aren't enough oak closets or locked offices to conceal this corruption. We will own victory at the end.

Keep your Heads UP!

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

Sorry, y'all. Again, I am not on a fishing expedition for pity or compliments.

I am shocked by the "clean house at USM" revelation and I reacted on the board before giving thought to my reaction.

I remain stunned. I am hopeful, though, that all of our actions will have the desired effect. I won't give up hope and I won't quit my activism.

I appreciate the kind words. Really, I do.

Date: May 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Fire Shelby
""clean house." I am heartsick for more reasons than I can tell anyone on this board. Heartsick. Why even try to continue at USM? There is no future here."

You're tired, frustrated, angry, hurt, and full of rightuous indignation . . . and deservedly so.

Judging by some of the comments and snippets you have let drop over the last few weeks, we have all figured out that you most probably hold a position of some importance at USM. We imagine that you have been here for a good number of years, and we all know that your love for this university knows no bounds. I personally believe that you are seriously committed to the faculty and students at USM, and I believe that you truly care about the quality of education that the university can provide.

This crisis cuts to the core of all of these things.

On top of the duties that you have in whatever position you hold, you also have family obligations, obligations to friends, social obligations . . . the list goes on. And yet, despite all of the other things crowding in on your life, you decided to devote a major portion of your time to develop and maintain this site, all in the name of fighting for the university that you love. I can only imagine how much sleep you've lost.

Of course you're tired . . . and deservedly so.

However, reading you're above comments reminded me of another dark hour in our history. Again, I can only imagine how tired, frustrated, angry, hurt, and full of rightuous indignation George Washington was during the winter at Valley Forge. Just think, he had an entire army that was his to command. Infantry, Calvery, Artillary . . . all ready to attack and destroy any enemy Washington ordered them to. And yet, for months and months, Washington had to fight an enemy he could not fight back against . . . the Pennsylvania winter that killed thousands of his men. There was no order he could give, no weapon he could wield, that would strike back at the weather. It was the bleakest, most despairing time in his life, the time when he most wanted to just lay down and die.

I thank God that he didn't.

I most likely have never met you, FS, and most likely I never will. I don't live in the Hattiesburg area any longer, and my visits are few and far between. But I want you to know that, because of this little website that you started a while back, I have felt a closer bond to USM, Hattiesburg, and the days of my youth than I have felt in many a year. I have discovered all over again that I do care about USM and what it stands for, as well as what it means to the community and the region, and I want to thank you for that. It's a damn shame that it took a crisis of this magnitude to evoke all of these feelings.

It's completely understandable to feel what you are feeling, FS. All true leaders do, from time to time. But true leaders, after spending some time resting, reflect back on those feelings and decide that the struggle is worth fighting, no matter what the odds. They pick themselves back up and jump back into the fray, usually with more passion than they had before. Washington did after Valley Forge . . .

. . . and look at the country he helped to found.

Date: May 10, 2004

I wouldn't get too excited about the "clean house at USM remark." Remember which two people it was attributed to--Klumb and Thames. Klumb, obviously, wants to do away with tenure and get rid of the whining drones who won't give a day's work for a day' pay--expecially the criminals among them--and has been saying so for years. As for Thames, "the board made me do it" is just another of his self-serving excuses for the gigantic botch he's made of his shot at the presidency. And there's a sense in which Klumb did make Shelby "do it"--I wouldn't be surprised if Shelby and Klumb haven't had more than one conversation specifically along those lines. But Klumb's off-the-cuff rantings are not board policy (although he's coming into his year as president), and we know there are others who would vehemently deny that the board wishes to diminish USM in any way. Some of these are maybe even irritated that Thames is blaming what he's done on them. Let's see if we can get them or the commissioner to speak up.

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"What ills is Shelby here to correct? If he has only been brought in to put the university on a better financial footing, that does not necessarily equate to "cleaning house" unless there are a lot of people not performing. So who is not performing? And how is that known and judged? Is Shelby right when he says he is here to "clean house?" What does that mean, exactly? Here is a new catch phrase for the war folks, directly out of Shelby's mouth."

I suspect Shelby has been "taking notes and taking names" for 40+ years. He's out to correct the ills he perceives have been "harmful" to him and to "his" cause. He harbors many grudges, is vindictive, and this is his chance for payback.

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Go Slow
" Let's see if we can get them or the commissioner to speak up. "

Tread lightly...apparently the IHL commissioner has a wife with terminal cancer, and I've already been painted as "heartless" by board member(s?) by suggesting that he should take time away to comment on the current crisis.

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Go Slow
"Klumb's off-the-cuff rantings are not board policy (although he's coming into his year as president), and we know there are others who would vehemently deny that the board wishes to diminish USM in any way. Some of these are maybe even irritated that Thames is blaming what he's done on them. "

Let's just let Klumb keep talking. Every time he opens his mouth, he lays out a little more rope, rope that will ultimately hang him & his flawed ideas. (I'm reluctant to call anything that comes from the "mind of Klumb" an "idea," but I know of no other word for it.)

Ultimately, there will be a board crisis. When SACS talks about "governance," it's talking about the board. And since IHL oversees all public universities in this state, when it finally stumbles afoul of SACS, the residue is going to wind up splattered on every university in the state not just USM.

I'm beginning to think that Mississippi is headed into an accreditation crisis the likes of which we haven't seen since Bilbo. All universities in Mississippi will be affected.

Date: May 10, 2004

Slightly off-topic: Sunherald (AP)Article on USM Marine Science Department

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/8632000.htm

From the article:

"The marine science department at the University of Southern Mississippi is one of the top-funded programs of its kind in the nation, according to a national survey.

The program at Southern Miss ranked No. 12 nationally in total funding and federal funding during the 2001-2002 school year, the most recent data available provided by the Consortium for Oceanographic Research and Education."

This is the department that Denis Wiesenburg is chair of and which he will be leaving for Alaska.

I wonder if Thames is happy to be rid of such a whiner. I mean, all he ever did was generate funding for the program that rivals Polymer Science as the top money maker.

Date: May 10, 2004

Fire Shelby,

Don't lose heart now...

As I remarked on another thread, I think these "clean house" remarks will make it possible to further undercut Thames' remaining support.

Specifically, they could finally galvanize the Alumni Association into action against Thames and Klumb.

Thames sees "cleaning house" as concentrating power into the hands of Shelby F. Thames, and getting rid of enemies. But since, in his mind, he is USM (= Thames Tech = Polymer State), he also thinks that cleaning house will help USM to grow and prosper.

Who knows what Roy Klumb really thinks? Maybe he is committed to the same egocentric foolishness as Thames is.

But there are people on the Board who have been supporting Thames for a different reason--they want to tear down USM, insure that it won't be a rival to their favored institutions, and Thames is their designated destroyer.

Thames, I'm willing to bet, doesn't see himself as a designated demolisher, or as anyone's useful idiot. At least some of his backers don't either.

This is an issue on which Thames can be isolated from some of his backers, and deep splits among his backers can be made apparent.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Who knows what Roy Klumb really thinks? Maybe he is committed to the same egocentric foolishness as Thames is.
"

I don't think it's been conclusively demonstrated that Roy Klumb thinks at all.

The by-word for "business and industry leaders" whenever they encounter a professor is, "If you're so smart, why ain't you rich?" Klumb believes this with all his heart:

Rich == smart

And "rich" is measured by how much you contribute to politicians.

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
The by-word for "business and industry leaders" whenever they encounter a professor is, "If you're so smart, why ain't you rich?"

To which, of course, the best answer is, "Homo doctus in se semper divitias habet." (Latin for, "The learned person always has riches within." = "I'm already rich, doofus.")

I've also heard, If you're so rich, why aren't you smart? That response has the benefit of being an antimetabole, i.e., a figure of speech that turns the argument on its ear, but I still think the Latin is better.

Ah, the learned life!

Date: May 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
" To which, of course, the best answer is, "Homo doctus in se semper divitias habet." (Latin for, "The learned person always has riches within." = "I'm already rich, doofus.") I've also heard, If you're so rich, why aren't you smart? That response has the benefit of being an antimetabole, i.e., a figure of speech that turns the argument on its ear, but I still think the Latin is better. Ah, the learned life!"

Very apt!! My mother (a smart but not educated person, but a reader and thinker) has always told me "Stupid people are afraid of smart people" which I believe more and more as I go along. There is an anti-education bias in this area, in spite of lip service given to education. To wit, the current k-12 crisis, which is a real crisis too.

Date: May 10, 2004

I didn't catch the Dave Elliott show - but have followed the comments about it here on this thread.

BELIEVE ME - I heard remarks about "cleaning-up" USM two years ago when Thames came on board. These remarks were made by friends of Thames ( and members of the ADP at that )at social functions around town ( no USM faculty/staff present ). It was apparent to me then from hearing this kind of talk that Thames was on quest to propel USM to technological heights and as one individual stated , "Put the faculty in their place". Wish I'd had a tape recorder.