Final Thoughts

Date: May 26, 2004

Final Thoughts

Date: May 26, 2004

Don't you understand after all this time? The hate comes from the Dome. Hatred and contempt for the faculty comes from SFT

Date: May 26, 2004

No, Ditto, you misunderstand. I do not support either side, but I have never seen such hatred spewed forth from anyhere that is as bad as what I've seen on this site. Believe me, this is your side's biggest roadblock in winning the battle for public opinion.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"No, Ditto, you misunderstand. I do not support either side, but I have never seen such hatred spewed forth from anyhere that is as bad as what I've seen on this site. Believe me, this is your side's biggest roadblock in winning the battle for public opinion."

Whatever. Work on your own heart before passing judgment on others.

(PS--You've obviously never been to Eagle Talk).

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"No, Ditto, you misunderstand. I do not support either side, but I have never seen such hatred spewed forth from anyhere that is as bad as what I've seen on this site. Believe me, this is your side's biggest roadblock in winning the battle for public opinion."

machi---

turn on cnn and watch reports from the arab streets concerning attitudes toward the west. believe it's a little worse than man-on-the-street attitudes toward sft. anyway, it's members of the pro-sft side that are in high-level positions in white supremacy groups and that are homophobes, etc. ....

Date: May 26, 2004

Take care, Mach. I hope you catch whatever it is you're angling for.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: elliott
" machi--- turn on cnn and watch reports from the arab streets concerning attitudes toward the west. believe it's a little worse than man-on-the-street attitudes toward sft. anyway, it's members of the pro-sft side that are in high-level positions in white supremacy groups and that are homophobes, etc. ...."

Good point, elliott!

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: elliott
"
machi---
anyway, it's members of the pro-sft side that are in high-level positions in white supremacy groups and that are homophobes, etc. ...."

What? Has this been discussed here before? If so, I missed it. This is a very ugly characterization. Who are these people?

AE

Date: May 26, 2004

Look at your responses here. You are all proving my point. I'll just watch you continue to destroy yourselves with hate.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"Look at your responses here. You are all proving my point. I'll just watch you continue to destroy yourselves with hate. "

Enjoy living in your self-delusional bubble! Or continue to post here and prove US right! Buh-bye?

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
" What? Has this been discussed here before? If so, I missed it. This is a very ugly characterization. Who are these people? AE"

I think this is a reference to R. Scott Farris and Billy Hewes (perhaps others that I'm not aware of).

Date: May 26, 2004

I really do not like to admit this but Machiavelli is absolutely correct. I know that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but even I can see the point Machiavelli is raising. I am sure that you will not agree and probably boot me or call me names as in the past but I too have an opinion.

I have worked here over eight years. I am not in academics but I have loved the people I have met and they have taught me so much. I guess I have been under a mistaken belief that in order to learn you have to keep an open mind and consider all sides of an issue. Well, Machavelli is only giving an opinion and he or she might have inofrmation that is useful. Another admission is that I have heard people who are not affiliated with us or USM make comments similar that his web is nothing more than smear and bs. Do not get me wrong I don't feel that way but I am willing to listen to another's opinion. After all we do need public opinion on our side to win the war.

Thanks for listening without busting me apart.

N/Q

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"I think this is a reference to R. Scott Farris and Billy Hewes (perhaps others that I'm not aware of)."

OK. I think the Thames animus evidenced here on FS is warranted, and the message board venting therapeutic. I do worry about the inclination to introduce volatile issues extraneous to the primary quest--derailing the Thames/IHL steamroller. The bent to characterize the USM battle as one of liberal vs. conservative, or Democrat vs. Republican seems both inappropriate and self-destructive. Reading this board, I believe it would be very difficult to create an unambiguous profile of the "typical" G&S supporter. The character and conduct of Dr. Thames and his ilk are anathema to honorable people of all colors, social philosophies, and political persuasions.

AE

Date: May 26, 2004

AE, assuming that you are correct about the Gnome "and his ilk," does that justify the vitriolics on this site? Do two wrongs make a right? Think about public opinion, which you must in order to win the war. What do you think the public's perception would be if they saw archived material from this site?

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"AE, assuming that you are correct about the Gnome "and his ilk," does that justify the vitriolics on this site? Do two wrongs make a right? Think about public opinion, which you must in order to win the war. What do you think the public's perception would be if they saw archived material from this site?"

I think the public would see how horribly oppressive life has been under the Thames regime. Do you work at USM? Well, I did for 8 years, and I can tell you that the last year I was there (under the Thames regime) was like nothing before it in terms of the level of mistrust of the upper administration by faculty & staff. When shared governance is not in place, people are constantly on guard for the next "mandate" to come down the pipe from the Big Guy. People were showing up to work and being *locked out* of their offices, for crying out loud (and I mean, way before G & S).

If you do work at USM, I can only assume that you work somewhere that has not been touched by the crisis (i.e. Polymer Science).

It's not about "2 wrongs making a right"--it's about people needing a place to vent safely about the atrocities happening at USM right now. If you don't like it, leave (as I've said before) and create your own message board. You obviously like this one, or you wouldn't keep engaging with us!

Stop the Sunday school lessons already!

Date: May 26, 2004

I do work at the university and (as I have said before) I disagree with both sides. I'm here to try to understand both sides. What amazes me is the intolerance of critical views, such as characterizing my opinion as a "Sunday school lesson." I simply feel that, sometimes, your anger clouds your thinking, which is only natural. But critical thinkers such as yourselves should be mindful of it.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"I do work at the university and (as I have said before) I disagree with both sides. I'm here to try to understand both sides. What amazes me is the intolerance of critical views, such as characterizing my opinion as a "Sunday school lesson." I simply feel that, sometimes, your anger clouds your thinking, which is only natural. But critical thinkers such as yourselves should be mindful of it."

I don't know about you, but "2 wrongs don't make a right" was a Sunday school lesson for me. It's a reductive and not very helpful axiom in this situation.

My emotions are my impetus for action. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no problems with emotions being expressed on this board.

Date: May 26, 2004

Machievelli,

My problem with your posts is mostly you just lecture us about our supposed hate. I don't believe I have seen you engage on any major issues. Perhaps I've missed it. But basically you do just come on the board and complain about our bad attitudes. I think people would be happy to engage with you on real issues. I'd like to see some "critical thinking" on your part.

Date: May 26, 2004

Au contraire, Footsoldier. See my post from yesterday at http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=18872&subForumID=21279&action=viewTopic&commentID=590319

It contains my views on the substantive issues, as well as my motives.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"AE, assuming that you are correct about the Gnome "and his ilk," does that justify the vitriolics on this site? Do two wrongs make a right? Think about public opinion, which you must in order to win the war. What do you think the public's perception would be if they saw archived material from this site?"

Mach,

I'm neither a USM faculty or staff member, nor a Hattiesburg resident, so my opinions are probably among the least important of any you might solicit. I will attempt to answer your question, but speak only for myself.

Given SFT's misdeeds, both proved and alleged, I don't find it surprising that he is so reviled or that the vitriol to which you refer has surfaced here. Having reached critical mass, it has to exit somewhere; one might argue that this is a better forum for ventilating than other, more public options.

You raise a legimate question about the potential for adverse public reaction to the more strident FS posts. If publicized, I don't believe they'd be well received, or buttress the cause in any way. However, given the very real need for the wronged parties to commiserate, and ventilate, I don't know what other venue one might propose that would preserve the anonymity of those parties still in jeopardy. Yes, I think some of the FS rhetoric has been mean-spirited, and over the top. Even so, it IS going to come out, so if not here, then where? Have you a better idea?Again, I am not a victim of any Thames actions; I'm certain those who are presently in the trenches can better address your concerns, than have I.

AE

Date: May 26, 2004

I agree with you AE, but unfortunately, this attitude tends to cloud logic at times, as evidenced by some of the the unsupported assumptions and allegations made on this site. This attitude also comes through quite clearly in more public forums, such as the media. That is what I am cautioning against. Unwittingly, the faculty does much to portray itself as malcontents in the public eye. That is not just my opinion, but what I have heard throughout the community. If faculty would take a more rational and less emotional response, they would see an improvement in public opinion.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"I do work at the university and (as I have said before) I disagree with both sides. I'm here to try to understand both sides. What amazes me is the intolerance of critical views, such as characterizing my opinion as a "Sunday school lesson." I simply feel that, sometimes, your anger clouds your thinking, which is only natural. But critical thinkers such as yourselves should be mindful of it."

I didn't know calling something a "Sunday School lesson" was a mean-spirited, angry thing.

Methinks, Mach, that a person usually finds what s/he sets out to find. Science calls it the "a priori assumption." The person who goes looking for "hateful messages" finds them at every turn. The person who goes looking for humor, finds it in the very same messages.

But seriously, if you want to see some real venom, do check out the roundtable at EagleTalk some time.

Date: May 26, 2004

Machiavelli,

I agree with you that logic and reason are ultimately more persuasive (even, paradoxically, on an emotional level) than anger and bitterness. In general, I would counsel everyone on the board to try to make appeals to reason rather than to passion. Can you understand, though, why people sometimes lose their tempers? They see lives being destroyed, corruption being practiced, a loved institution being undermined, and -- most important -- no fair process of appeal. People at USM feel desperate (literally: without hope), and thus it is human nature for some of them sometimes to lash out in anger. This board is open to almost anyone, and there is no way to "police" it in a way that would allow only for socratic dialogue. It is a genuine public forum, with all the advantages and disadvantages that go with nearly open admission to all. In some ways I think the anger expressed here serves the useful purpose of letting SFT and his supporters realize just how very deeply the distrust of his administration runs. Can you at least understand WHY people feel so strongly?

Date: May 26, 2004

AE, I understand completely why people feel the way they do--on both sides. I was merely making an observation on how to be more productive in furthering your view.

As for Truth, I agree that venom begets venom. To my knowledge I have not been venomous. At least I never intended to be venomous.

Finally, while I have not been to Eagle Talk, I don't doubt you what you say. Where do I find that site?

Date: May 26, 2004

Ooops! Sorry, I got the names wrong.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
"AE, I understand completely why people feel the way they do--on both sides. "

Mach,

I think one reason SFT and his supporters can present themselves to the public as the "less angry" of the two sides is that SFT holds all the cards: he can fire people at will, lock them out of their offices, tap their phones, monitor their e-mail, malign their good names in the press through a publicly-funded PR machine, rely on endless reserves of public cash to pay a legal team, and rely on the good offices of Roy Klumb to make sure that he never loses at the highest stage of appeal. No WONDER he can present himself as "above it all": to a large degree, he IS! The system is rigged so much in his favor that he can present himself as The Reasonable One, interested in Moving USM Forward. Nevertheless, he has a long history of mistreating people and abusing his authority, and, fortunately, he also apparently has just as bad a temper as anyone on this board -- a fact that leads him to make constant missteps and that will, I suspect, ultimately prove to be his Achilles Heel.

Fire Shelby · Status: Offline

Please read the rules about attacks on members of this board. You obviously came here to attack, not to contribute.

Date: May 26, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Machiavelli
" Finally, while I have not been to Eagle Talk, I don't doubt you what you say. Where do I find that site?"

Really, you don't want to go there. Talk about hate-filled, ill-conceived, emotionally-charged responses...they are the masters of that discourse.